Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, September 10 2010 Volume 14 : Number 049
In this issue:
Prosecution of census protestor continues
Mayor Says Kids May Need To Bring 'Mace' To School
Edmonton Journal - Letters - Sept 10/10
The Mark - The Danger of Scrapping the Long-Gun Registry
Macleans - The long-gun registry's value is only symbolic
LETTER: Sask. Star Phoenix editorial takes opposition bait
re: logger stuns bear with rock ....
Re: Ontario nurses urge Harper to save gun registry- TorStar/CP
Letter: Don't scrap useful tool - The StarPhoenix
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:04:31 -0600
From: Joe Gingrich <whitefox@sasktel.net>
Subject: Prosecution of census protestor continues
Sandra Finley invoked the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, saying it
protects citizens from being forced to turn over "a biographical core of
personal information" to the state.
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Prosecution+census+protestor+continues/3504298/story.html
Prosecution of census protestor continues
By Betty Ann Adam, The StarPhoenix
September 10, 2010
Canada's long-form census was put on the chopping block two months ago, but
that hasn't ended the prosecution of a Saskatoon woman on trial for
refusing to fill out her census in 2006.
Federal Crown prosecutor Barrie Miller argued that the Statistics Act
applies to the 2006 census regardless of the government's decision to
eliminate the mandatory long form on the 2011 census.
Defence lawyer Steven Seiferling thinks the federal government may see the
Finley case as a test to see what the court will say about the privacy
concerns raised about the long form.
On Thursday, Seiferling submitted a government news release from July 13,
in which Industry Minister Tony Clement cited concern about the privacy
rights of Canadians.
Sandra Finley, 61, invoked the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, saying it
protects citizens from being forced to turn over "a biographical core of
personal information" to the state.
Miller said the charter is not violated by the law and there is no evidence
the census information has ever been improperly disclosed to outside
sources.
Even if the law is found to violate the charter, the law is reasonable and
the search for information was done in a reasonable manner, Miller said.
Finley is concerned that the government of Canada compels or coerces people
to provide personal information and that it makes refusal a criminal
offence.
Finley specifically objected to the government's contracting Lockheed
Martin Canada Ltd. to provide computer hardware and software and printing
of forms for the census.
She feared census information could be obtained by the company and has said
she objects to Canada doing business that would enrich the military
industrial complex.
Lockheed Martin Canada is a subsidiary of the huge American defence
contractor, aerospace manufacturer, information security and advanced
technology company.
badam@sp.canwest.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:25:00 -0600
From: Joe Gingrich <whitefox@sasktel.net>
Subject: Mayor Says Kids May Need To Bring 'Mace' To School
http://www.wgal.com/news/24933240/detail.html
Students Robbed In Harrisburg; Mayor Says Kids May Need To Bring 'Mace' To
School
Four Robberies Take Place Within An Hour
September 9, 2010
HARRISBURG, Pa. -- Police said they are searching for two suspects who
allegedly robbed five students from Harrisburg during four Wednesday
morning incidents.
The first robbery took place at 7:15 a.m., followed by three more robberies
before 7:50 a.m. The students ranged from 13 to 16 years old and attend
either John Harris High School, Bishop McDevitt or Marshall School.
The suspects made off with money, backpacks, cell phones, a wristwatch,
video game and Mp3 player. No one was hurt in the robberies.
Mayor Linda Thompson offered some advice to parents.
"We ask parents to join up with other parents in the neighborhood and have
their kids walk together. You know, and if they got to give their kids a
can of mace to carry with them -- I, I urge urge parents to help us in
doing all they can to protect our innocent kids," Thompson said. You can
listen to the mayor's quote here.
Police said they are looking for two black males about 17 years old, thin
to medium build, one of dark complexion and the other of lighter
complexion. Both are of medium height.
by WGAL.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:26:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bruce Mills <akimoya@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Edmonton Journal - Letters - Sept 10/10
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opinion/letters/play+dumb/3504635/story.html
Don't play dumb
Surely Vancouver Police Chief Jim Chu knows that to legally purchase a
long gun, let alone register it, a Canadian must first pass background
checks to be licensed, must renew their licence every few years, and must
inform the Chief Firearms Officer when they change address.
Surely he also knows that the upcoming vote pertains only to the long-gun
registry and not to the licensing system.
Surely Chu has also been informed that those who use firearms for illegal
purposes don't always bother to get licensed and register their guns.
Surely Chu knows it's extremely dangerous for officers to assume firearms
are not present at a call just because they don't show up in the licensing
or registration databases.
And surely he is aware the homicide rate from long guns peaked in 1977,
fell over the next twenty-some years, but shows no appreciable decline
since the gun registry's 2001-2003 implementation (Homicide in Canada
2007, Statistics Canada catalogue 85-002-X).
Is Chu ignorant of these facts? Or is he pretending to be so to advance
his argument that the registry "makes all Canadians safer?"
Gene Hochachka,
Edmonton
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opinion/letters/Licensing+will+remain/3504633/story.html
Licensing will remain
Edmonton Journal September 10, 2010
Vancouver Police Chief Jim Chu's comments are confusing, as he is
comparing vehicle accidents and fatalities to the registration of long
guns. Regardless of what is done to the long-gun registry, we will retain
firearms training and licensing of all legal firearms.
Ken Marion,
Entwistle
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opinion/letters/Computers+fight+crime/3504632/story.html
Computers don't fight crime
Edmonton Journal September 10, 2010
Re: "Long-gun registry not a failure -- chief," by Vancouver Police Chief
Jim Chu, Letters, Sept. 6.
Vancouver Police Chief Jim Chu is showing the disconnect between him and
his fellow chiefs of police and the people whom they are supposed to
protect.
Chu states that "on the occasions when a firearm is linked to a call ...
the police response and tactics change immensely."
Is Chu suggesting that when no firearms are linked to the call, police
take a more relaxed approach?
If the response and tactics change immensely only when guns are linked,
then officer safety is being put in jeopardy by the very chiefs they are
supposed to follow.
Chu states that "Yes, most Canadians do not own guns and will not show up
in the computer query."
Yet many of those Canadians have a licence and are well within their
rights to borrow one from another owner.
In another statement, Chu says, "That is like saying vehicle injuries and
fatalities still occur so why require people to have drivers' licences?"
Chu is either confused or is deliberately trying to obfuscate the issue.
Bill C-391 is not addressing the licensing of an individual, it is only
dealing with the dismantling of the long-gun registry.
Every firearm owner will still need to be licensed, just as drivers must
be licensed to show they have had training in the use of a vehicle.
Licensing isn't the topic of conversation here.
Lastly, Chu states: "The long-gun registry makes all Canadians safer" and
that's the reason we're supposed to support it.
If the registry actually did anything to make Canadians safer, I and many
others would support it. It does no such thing.
The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police likes to compare guns to
cars, so here's a similar example: Registering your car does not make
other road users safer, it just tells the police who owned the car if the
license plates are removed.
Would the roads become chaos if we stopped registering cars?
No, we'd simply have to find a new way to record who owns what car.
The CACP wants to keep the registry because it expands the amount of money
they are given by the government.
The CACP would apparently prefer to spend another $1 billion on a computer
program rather than hire additional police officers to serve our
communities.
Tyler Beckett,
Edmonton
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:33:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bruce Mills <akimoya@yahoo.ca>
Subject: The Mark - The Danger of Scrapping the Long-Gun Registry
http://beta.themarknews.com/articles/2331-the-danger-of-scrapping-the-long-gun-registry
The Danger of Scrapping the Long-Gun Registry
by Carol Allison-Burra
Vice President, Canadian Association of Police Boards.
* First Posted: Sep 10 2010 00:13 AM
* Updated: about 1 hour
The long-gun registry is as important to police safety as are bullet-proof
vests.
Canada's police forces have been among the most outspoken opponents of
this fall's private member's bill to scrap the long-gun registry. The Mark
caught up with Carol Allison-Burra, vice president of the Canadian
Association of Police Boards, to find out why law enforcers across the
country believe the registry is such an important tool.
The Mark: Why is the Canadian Firearms Program important to your
organization?
Carol Allison-Burra: We are very concerned both from the community safety
perspective and the safety of our employees, the Police Services members.
And we take a hard look at anything that enhances the safety of our
officers. We buy the best vests and safety equipment for our officers. We
are interested in keeping our men and women on the front lines safe. We
also believe that having guns known to the policing service is one more
way of ensuring greater community safety after all.
TM: What's your response to critics of the registry who say it is
financially unsustainable for the country and a bureaucratic hassle for
law-abiding gun-owners?
CAB: I think that it is very financially efficient now. At the start, it
was not well-managed, there was a lot of resistance from gun owners, and
it was bungled. Since the RCMP has taken it over, it has become much more
efficient, and I know that the cost now is just over $4 million to run it.
The numbers of police service members who access it are well over 4
million for 2009, so it is kind of $1 [per use]. It is totally not a
bureaucratic hassle. It's free, it can be done on the internet and it
takes less than two minutes to send it in.
TM: And what about the charge that long guns are not used in violent
crimes?
CAB: One of the things that we learned along the way is that of the 16
police officers who were shot between 1998 and early 2010, 14 were killed
by a long gun, and that 15 per cent of homicides in Canada were committed
with a long gun. I think the registry has helped gun owners become more
responsible. Some of the critics have said that the registry hasn't
prevented long-gun crime. Well, of course it hasn't. It's not about being
a panacea for all long-gun use, it's about harm and risk reduction. The
fact that police can find out whether or not there is a gun registered at
a household or on a particular street helps them in looking out for their
own safety.
TM: Why are some police officers opposed to the registry?
CAB: I heard one [officer] talking about it at a recent meeting in St.
John suggesting that whenever we approach a house, we have to be ready for
anything, saying, '"Don't you know that we're all trained to do that
anyway, so why would we need to check on a computer whether or not there
is a long gun there." It's about risk management. Some of the officers
may not use the registry as much as others, and therefore scoff at the
billions of dollars at the outset and think that's what it is costing now.
Notably, the police officers that are speaking up as individuals [...] are
from provinces that are less inclined to keep the registry, notably
Alberta and Manitoba. And the one police chief that I heard speak against
the gun registry was from Calgary; he presented at the same public safety
committee hearing as I did, and he spoke mostly about guns and gangs and
not a lot about the long-gun registry per se. I can appreciate that police
are concerned about guns and gangs. The long gun registry is certainly
high on the list of most chiefs of police to have it maintained.
TM: What social value does the long-gun registry instill in Canadian
society, communally and with individual citizens?
CAB: Responsible gun ownership is really what the registry is all about
and expecting citizens to be accountable for their firearms. You can't
just loan or give [a gun] to someone. We don't question registering a
newborn child. We don't have a problem registering our cars. And most of
us register our pets if we live in municipalities with bylaws governing
pet behaviour. The National Rifle Association has spent a significant
amount of money supporting the lobby against registration, and the right
to bear arms is one of the things that a lot of gun owners who use it for
recreational hunting will say. Well, it is not a Canadian right to bear
arms. It was built into the American Constitution in the 1800s when they
were scared that the Brits would return. And I don't think that anyone
has told the NRA that the Brits aren't coming anymore. Knives cannot be
governed, and I'm very concerned with the use of knives in domestic
assaults. But a firearm can be. And I hope this can prevent some domestic
disputes and intimidation with firearms. It's easy to shoot the dog, or
shoot the cat, it's easy to threaten to shoot a child or a spouse if
there's a long gun in the house. So there's an intimidation factor that I
think plays into the hands of a certain sector of society around how they
treat women, children, and animals. Also, a long gun is often the weapon
of choice in rural suicides, particularly with men. It's not surprising
that emergency room physicians, coroners, nurses and certainly women's
shelters have come out in support of the registry.
feedback@themarknews.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:00:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bruce Mills <akimoya@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Macleans - The long-gun registry's value is only symbolic
http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/10/the-registrys-value/
The long-gun registry�s value is only symbolic
COYNE: It�s not much use, for not much cost. If it�s worth keeping, it�s
probably worth killing as well.
by Andrew Coyne on Friday, September 10, 2010 9:00am - 12 Comments
KEVIN FRAYER/CP
One thing all the parties agree on is the vital importance of the long-gun
registry. Whether it�s a costly and intrusive waste of time, as the Tories
maintain, or an effective tool of law enforcement, as the Liberals insist,
or both, as I gather is the NDP�s view, it�s widely seen as a critical,
make-or-break issue.
And like most critical, make-or-break issues in politics, it�s of little
actual importance to anyone. Whether the registry lives or dies will have
no impact whatsoever on the vast majority of Canadians, and scarcely more
on the minority that pay it close attention.
Take the cost, first. It is certainly true that the costs of setting up
the registry were substantial, and outrageous. If the issue were whether
it was worth spending $2 billion just to draw up a list, not of handguns
or newly purchased rifles (both are subject to separate procedures), but
of the rifles people already owned, I doubt there�d be many takers.
But the registry has been set up. The $2 billion is a sunk cost: it�s
gone, and nothing we can do will get it back. The relevant factor in any
decision we make now is not what we paid in the past but what we�ll have
to pay from here on, that is, the annual cost of maintaining the registry,
which the RCMP informs us is less than $4 million a year.
Not terribly costly, and not terribly intrusive either: as its defenders
point out, we are obliged to register many other of our possessions, most
of them far less capable of havoc than a gun. As Charlie Gillis reports
elsewhere in this issue, whatever forms gun owners must fill out on
account of the registry are barely noticeable amid the mounds of paperwork
to which they are already subject.
On the other hand, there�s not much evidence of the registry�s
effectiveness, either. Its boosters among the nation�s police forces say
it can be useful, when answering a domestic disturbance, say, to know how
many guns are in the house. Which is no doubt true�if the householder has
been so good as to register them all. But the best gun registry tells us
relatively little about unregistered guns. In sum, the registry is not
much use, for not much cost. If it�s probably worth keeping, it�s probably
worth killing as well. It just doesn�t matter a great deal either way.
That is, if actual costs and benefits are your thing.
But as for its symbolic value, ah, that�s another story. Rightly or
wrongly, many people in rural Canada have come to see the gun registry as
a sign of the disdain with which they are viewed by blinkered city snobs.
The Conservatives know this, and cater to it. Equally, many people in
urban Canada have come to see it, not only as the antidote to gun crime,
but as a token of credibility on urban issues. The Liberals know this, and
cater to it in their turn. (As have the Bloc, though in Quebec the
registry is less controversial.) Which leaves the NDP, and the 12
anti-registry MPs in its ranks who will decide this month�s crucial
parliamentary vote on the issue. (Sorry, did I say crucial? Not exactly.
The vote is on a Liberal motion to scotch a Tory private member�s bill,
C-391, that would abolish the registry. But the bill itself does not come
to a vote at third reading for some time yet. So even if the motion is
defeated, that doesn�t guarantee the bill will pass.)
The wavering MPs, all from rural or small-town ridings, are under enormous
pressure, given the registry�s unpopularity with their constituents; two
have already recanted under the heat. But that�s nothing compared to the
abuse their leader, Jack Layton, has taken. The Liberals have been
especially scornful of him for his refusal to whip the vote, painting this
as a failure of �leadership.� That�s their privilege, I suppose, but
that�s no reason the rest of us should buy into it.
I had some fun at the top of this column with the NDP�s position, or
positions, on the issue. But in fact the party is handling it exactly as
it should. This needs to be said, and should be repeated every time this
comes up: there�s nothing wrong with a caucus being �divided� on a vote.
That is simply another name for MPs doing what they were elected to do:
represent their riding, either as their conscience or their constituents
dictate.
The gun registry shows up nowhere in the NDP�s 2008 platform. The party
did not run on it, and MPs cannot be said to owe their seats to the
party�s stand on the issue. So there�s no failure of leadership here.
Layton may not have much choice�the NDP has many more dissenters in its
caucus, proportionately, than do the Liberals, so any use of the whip
risked inciting a revolt�but he�s doing the right thing all the same. You
take a stand as a party where you have a consensus as a party. If there�s
no such consensus, what is the point of pretending there is?
So maybe there is something important at stake here after all. The NDP are
taking a principled stand on behalf of parliamentary democracy and the
rights of MPs, right? Er, no. When the Liberals were �divided,� as in the
vote to extend the Afghanistan mission in 2006, the NDP leader was among
the first to criticize them. As usual in our politics, any resemblance to
principle is purely coincidental.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, September 10, 2010 12:03 pm
From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" <dhyoung@shaw.ca>
Subject: LETTER: Sask. Star Phoenix editorial takes opposition bait
Cc: "OUTDOORS CAUCUS ASSOCIATION" <pmorlock@shimano.com>
SASKATOON STAR PHOENIX - SEPTEMBER 9, 2010
LETTER: SP takes opposition bait BY GARRY BREITKREUZ
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/opinion/takes+opposition+bait/3504327/story.html
I take issue with the editorial, 'Bizarre claims driving wedge in registry
issue' (SP, Sept. 7).
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/opinion/Bizarre+claims+driving+wedge+registry+issue/3488036/story.html?cid=megadrop_story
Our government carefully reviewed the recent RCMP report that cites the
efficacy of the long-gun registry. The RCMP itself admits its data are
inconclusive. The report supports the Auditor General's statement that
evidence is lacking to support the registry's use as an effective crime
fighting tool.
Our government knows it is more important to ensure individuals are
qualified to own a firearm than to place a piece of paper beside each gun.
I would much rather see a registry of persons who've been convicted of gun
crimes. We have no idea where these criminals relocate and there is no
system to track them. Instead, we register the "good guys," because it
lulls the public into thinking the government is somehow controlling guns.
I have never referred to the police as a cult. I work closely with police
officers on public safety issues and have great respect for the risks they
take on our behalf.
Demonizing an MP is an old trick to deflect away from the real issue. It is
unfortunate that The StarPhoenix has taken the bait cast from the
opposition benches. The opposition's "compromise" -- to decriminalize the
failure to register a long gun -- is neither constitutional nor possible.
Gun owners aren't falling for the so-called soft landing that the
opposition leaders are pretending to offer. MPs who supported Bill C-391
at second reading were acting according to their constituents' wishes.
Nothing has changed in the 10 months since.
Garry Breitkreuz
MP, Yorkton-Melville
- -- --
Letters To The Editor
citydesk@sp.canwest.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:13:10 -0700
From: "Todd Birch" <birch_as_in_tree@telus.net>
Subject: re: logger stuns bear with rock ....
OK- I surrender the title.
Me and a guy south of me in the Chilcotin have both beaten bears to death
with a club, but a rock?
I've been practicing with my 50-70 for bear and would love for an
aggressive bear to challenge me. I've stared down a few and had a couple
stand up to check me out, but never an aggressive attack.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:28:08 -0400
From: Yvon Dionne <novy007@globetrotter.net>
Subject: Re: Ontario nurses urge Harper to save gun registry- TorStar/CP
Gun control is not more a health issue than killing with knifes, ropes,
gas, poison, medicine, drugs, and may be I forget some (like cutting our
veins or killing with a srewdriver or a chain saw... or a baseball bat).
We would expect more rational thinking from our nurses, since they may be
asked to end our lives by an overdose of drugs like morphine.
The rational thinking is, let's put it this way, that there is a limit and
a decreasing benefit-cost benefit curve to defend controls and the option
comes earlier in favour of less or no State control when we stress more on
group and individual control and responsability and education.
My wife, who is a nurse (now retired), had a difficult experience in a
case of a man who was telling her he was ready to kill his wife and
children. She convinced him to take a taxi and come to meet her. He came
with a sawed-off shotgun hidden in his vest (that was in Winter time). My
wife managed to control him and the guy went in psychiatry.
There were no charges.
I met his wife and children afterwards, and they were all beautiful. A
charming wife we have helped.
Yvon Dionne
http://www.yvondionne.org/
http://www.facebook.com/
_________________________________________________________
> Date: Thu, September 9, 2010 1:38 pm
> From: "David R.G. Jordan" <drg.jordan@sasktel.net>
> Subject: Ontario nurses urge Harper to save gun registry- TorStar/CP
>
> Ontario nurses urge Harper to save gun registry
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/gunregistry/article/858615--ontario-nurses-urge-harper-to-save-gun-registry
>
> The Registered Nurses' Association of Ontario has made its views known in
> an open letter to Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
> The letter says that for nurses, the gun registry is not a north versus
> south or rural versus urban issue, but a health issue.
<snip>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, September 10, 2010 1:50 pm
From: "David R.G. Jordan" <drg.jordan@sasktel.net>
Subject: Letter: Don't scrap useful tool - The StarPhoenix
Don't scrap useful tool
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/opinion/letters/scrap+useful+tool/3504329/story.html
By Doug Bone,
The StarPhoenix
September 10, 2010
In a release called "Operation Zero Tolerance," the Edmonton-based
National Firearms Association refers to "the gun control agenda of the
political police."
It claims to have information that the Canadian Association of Police
Chiefs will be directing its members "to clamp down on licensed firearms
owners with registered firearms as punishment for their political action
to reform bad firearms control laws." The NFA doesn't name the source for
its "information."
I'm a gun owner and a farmer. Not all gun owners and rural people share
the NFA's dubious views or its anti-registration agenda.
In a cop's boots, I'd want every advantage I could get in this dangerous
line of work. Fourteen of the last 16 murders of police officers in Canada
were committed with long-guns. A recent RCMP report says the long-gun
registry is a crucial tool for police.
Police chiefs are courageous in speaking up for the welfare of their
officers and the public they serve. Lately, to voice an opinion different
from Stephen Harper's has proved a dangerous career move for many public
servants.
There isn't much difference in being required to register guns or a motor
vehicle. It's all part of being accountable as a Canadian citizen.
The long gun registry is already built, frequently used, and useful. So
from a practical and common sense point of view, why throw it away now?
It's time the Conservatives (and the NFA) dropped their efforts to ditch
it and supported the people with first-hand knowledge and with lives
directly on the line -- our cops.
Doug Bone
Elrose
- -- --
Letters To The Editor
citydesk@sp.canwest.com
On-line Form Letter Submissions
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/opinion/letters/letters-to-the-editor.html
------------------------------
End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #49
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