Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, October 21 2009 Volume 13 : Number 501 In this issue: RE: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen Re: An interesting concept?!! National Post: What (Liberals think) a woman wants Wpg Free Press Column: 'Values' drive Conservative politics Column: Bye Bye Body Armour Registry Status? MP says it's a 2 billion dollar boondoggle Re: Column: Bye Bye Body Armour Re: National Post: What (Liberals think) a woman wants Re: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen "BIBLE HATERS" ARE FURIOUS THAT JURY USED BIBLE TO DETERMINE.... Re: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen Tories promoting plan to scrap gun registry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:43:51 +0000 From: Trigger Mortis Subject: RE: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen "If you seek peace prepare for war" I have seen this quote from as far back as Roman Senate member Appius Claudius the Blind. To put it in current vernacular if you are ready willing and able to fight no one will pick a fight with you. Alan Harper alan__harper@hotmail.com SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM ************************* > From: mudman1@telusplanet.net > To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: Re: News Durham - Teens charged after guns=2C ammo stolen > Date: Wed=2C 21 Oct 2009 07:52:56 -0600 > > Alan - > > Thanks for this but what's the scoop on your tag line? > > Jim Szpajcher > St. Paul Alberta > > > Hollow point ammo is legal in Canada for pistol and rifle. > > Alan Harper > > alan__harper@hotmail.com > > SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM > > ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:45:06 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: An interesting concept?!! This sounds like the place to move to soon As Long as the tax base is much less than ours in Ontario...ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Birch" To: "cdn-firearmsdigest" Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 12:17 PM Subject: Fw: An interesting concept?!! > Subject: FW: An interesting concept?!! > > Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack has read the Second Amendment to > the U.S. Constitution, as well as Vermont's own Constitution very > carefully, and his strict interpretation of these documents is popping > some eyeballs in New England and elsewhere. > > Maslack recently proposed a bill to register "non-gun-owners" > and require them to pay a $500 fee to the state. > > Thus Vermont would become the first state to require a permit > for the luxury of going about unarmed and assess a fee of $500 for the > privilege of not owning a gun. > > Maslack read the "militia" phrase of the Second Amendment as > not only affirming the right of the individual citizen to bear arms, but > as a clear mandate to do so. He believes that universal gun ownership > was advocated by the Framers of the Constitution as an antidote to a > "monopoly of force" by the government as well as criminals > > Vermont's constitution states explicitly that "the people have > a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State" and > those persons who are "conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms" shall > be required to "pay such equivalent." > > Clearly, says Maslack, Vermonters have a constitutional > obligation to arm themselves, so that they are capable of responding to > "any situation that may arise." > > Under the bill, adults who choose not to own a firearm would be > required to register their name, address, Social Security Number, and > driver's license number with the state. > > "There is a legitimate government interest in knowing who is > not prepared to defend the state should they be asked to do so," Maslack > says > > Vermont already boasts a high rate of gun ownership along with > the least restrictive laws of any state .. it's currently the only state > that allows a citizen to carry a concealed firearm without a permit. > This combination of plenty of guns and few laws regulating them has > resulted in a crime rate that is the third lowest in the nation. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 21, 2009 1:19 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: National Post: What (Liberals think) a woman wants NATIONAL POST - OCTOBER 21, 2009 David Akin: What (Liberals think) a woman wants The Liberals will release Pink Book III today at an event on Parliament Hill. The Pink Book is the policy ideas developed and advanced by the Liberal Women's Caucus and forms part of the party's platform during a federal election. Here's a look back at the first two Pink Books: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/10/21/david-akin-what-liberals-think-a-woman-wants.aspx =============================================================== Here's a look back at the first two Pink Books: Pink Book I •Produced in the summer of 2006, Belinda Stronach, Chair, National Liberal Woman's Caucus. •"While our discussions in 2006 were broad-ranging and detailed, the Liberal Women’s Caucus decided to focus on three broad policy areas where the impact on women and families can be the most far-reaching and profound. They are early learning and child care, income security and improved maternity and parental benefits. •The Liberal Women’s Caucus recommends that a new Liberal government honour the previous bilateral agreements with the provinces and territories for $1 billion a year over five years in early learning and child care. •To fully meet the needs of working women and young families, a new Liberal government needs, as a long term goal, to devote federal financial support equivalent to one per cent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to early learning and child care. •To ease the burden on women and other caregivers, a new Liberal government should invest $1 billion over five years to develop a national caregiver agenda. The provinces and territories need to be partners with the national government to move forward in this area. •The Liberal Women’s Caucus is committed to the reinstatement of the Court Challenges Program. •The Liberal Women’s Caucus has been and continues to be a strong supporter of the national gun registry. •Honour the bilateral agreements signed with provinces and territories to provide a system of early learning and child care across the country. These agreements should be protected by legislation. The original Liberal commitment was for $1 billion a year for five years – this level of support must be reinstated as a minimum starting point. •As a longer-term goal, establish a schedule for federal funding of child care so it reaches one per cent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) as recommended by the OECD report, Starting Strong II. •Re-invest the $1,200 per year, per family, provided under the Conservative government’s policy in the Canadian Child Tax Benefit (CCTB). The Canadian Child Tax Benefit (CCTB) is already in place and works efficiently and effectively. By increasing the base benefit by $1,200, the overwhelming majority of Canadian failies would receive – and keep – a $1,200 increase in their Canada Child Tax Benefit (CCTB). •Direct the value of the Spousal Credit – the tax deduction for a spouse at home – to be paid directly to the spouse, who, in most instances, will be a woman. •extend the Canada Pension Plan drop-out provision to unpaid caregivers. This measure will address the future economic security of those who drop out of the labour force to provide care. Here's the highlights from Pink Book II: •The proposals in Volume II deal with violence against women, housing, Aboriginal women, immigrant and refugee women and rural women. •Book II released in 2007 when Stronach was still chair of the women's caucus. •Change Divorce Act to protect woman and children from situations where divorce is precipitated by acts of violence. •Recognizing that women and girls form a disproportionate number of homeless, Liberals should develop a National Housing Strategy. "One solution to this persistent problem is a portable shelter subsidy20 that is tied to need rather than to designated units. The portability allows a woman to choose where she would like to live, be it closer to family, social support networks, schools, etc. It also avoids the stigma that can come with living in social housing. This change would significantly increase the number of women who could receive the assistance they need to live in adequate, affordable housing." •"Women’s Caucus endorses the creation of a Liberal taskforce that would travel across the country meeting with organizations and individual women from rural Canada to discuss their concerns and priorities. ... The National Liberal Women’s Caucus re-affirms their commitment to the policy options proposed The Pink Book: Volume l to provide a system of early learning and child care (ELCC) across the country." •"To address the rising number of Aboriginal children in care, Women’s Caucus recommends the approach proposed by the National Council of Welfare. The council states that Aboriginal peoples are best positioned to make decisions about Aboriginal children and youth. To do this, there is a need for adequately funded, Aboriginal controlled, culturally-based models." •Women’s Caucus supports changing the work permits under the Livein Caregiver Program from employer-specific to sector specific. The Program allows workers from overseas to provide support for children, elderly and disabled persons, and enables approximately 3000 to 5000 caregivers to work in Canada each year. Since that document was released in 2007, we've had a general election and the national Liberal women's caucus has new leaders and new members (and, of course, there's a new Liberal leader). Stronach, Lucienne Robillard, Colleen Beaumier, Brenda Chamberlain, and Nancy Karetak-Lindell did not seek re-election. Sue Barnes, Bonnie Brown, Tina Keeper, and Karen Redman were defeated in the fall of 2008. There are several new members of the women's caucus, elected for the first time in 2008: Siobhan Coady, Bonnie Crombie, Kirsty Duncan, Judy Foote, Alexandra Mendes, Michelle Simson, and Lisa Zarac. National Post Gemini Award-winning reporter David Akin is the National Affairs Correspondent for Canwest News Service and is based at the CNS Parliamentary Bureau in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Read more at On the Hill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 21, 2009 1:23 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Wpg Free Press Column: 'Values' drive Conservative politics Winnipeg Free Press - October 21, 2009 'Values' drive Conservative politics By: Frances Russell http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/values-drive-conservative-politics-65138097.html CANADA'S once-mighty Natural Governing Party (a.k.a. the Big Red Machine) is beginning to resemble the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland. "(I)t vanished quite slowly, beginning with the end of its tail and ending with the grin, which remained some time after the rest of it had gone." One by one, the bastions of Liberal support have fallen. The first to depart were westerners in protest over bilingualism and "pandering" to Quebec in the 1960s. Second, in a mirror image of the West's opposition to bilingualism, nationalist Quebecers rejected the Trudeau dream of one Canada with two founding peoples and languages, switching first to Brian Mulroney's Progressive Conservatives in the 1980s and then to the Bloc Quebecois in the 1990s. Third, rural Canadians started drifting away in the 1960s and are now almost gone, alienated by the belief the Liberals neither understood them nor cared about their issues but governed solely for progressive urban elites with policies like the gun registry and support for same-sex marriage. Now, the Stephen Harper Conservatives are on their way to shattering the last remnants of the old Liberal fortress among seniors, immigrants, visible and religious minorities, women and city dwellers through the relentless application of U.S. Republican wedge politics and vicious personal attack ads. The Harper Conservatives have introduced a whole new style of politics to Canada, and the opposition parties must adapt to confront it or see the country changed irrevocably. Michael Behiels, a native of Alberta's Peace River country, teaches Canadian constitutional history at the University of Ottawa. He says Harper's approach to politics and governance is shaped by his Christian fundamentalism. "Harper is a fundamentalist 'values' conservative and his evangelical Christian views drive both his domestic and foreign policy agendas," Behiels continues. "On foreign policy, Harper is a dyed-in-the-wool Republican who maintains that the U.S., Canada and the U.K. have a mission, a religious duty, so to speak, to impose an American form of democracy on the world." On the domestic front, Behiels continues, the prime minister believes "every left-of-centre Canadian is a moral relativist, that is, immoral, and can't be trusted to govern at any level of society." In a 2003 speech to the conservative Civitas group, Harper expressed the philosophy that informs his politics and public policies to this day. "Conservatives need to reassess our understanding of the modern left. It has moved beyond old socialistic morality or even moral relativism to something much darker. It has become moral nihilism ... a post-Marxism with deep resentments," he said. "Serious conservative parties simply cannot shy away from values questions. On a wide range of public policy questions, including foreign affairs and defence, criminal justice and corrections, family and child care and health care and social services, social values are increasingly the big issues." This is the wellspring for the prime minister's contempt for "socialists," for his treatment of Canada's opposition parties as enemies to be destroyed, for his antipathy to "left-wing fringe groups" working on behalf of the disadvantaged, for his government's crackdown on refugees and his willingness to spend hundreds of millions of dollars building new prisons to facilitate his "tough-on-crime" agenda. Behiels says Canada's changing demographics and recent socio-economic developments are helping the Conservatives smash the Liberal base. Many of Canada's recent immigrants come from countries where fundamentalist religion, whether Muslim, Christian or Judaic, predominate. And the Conservatives have spared neither energy nor money in wooing them. Their success can be measured in the Conservative penetration of the ring of wealthy, multicultural suburbs forming the 905 area code region of Metropolitan Toronto. Using polling data from IpsosReid and Angus Reid, a new study by the Centre for Research on Canadian Evangelicalism found growth of evangelical support for the Reform/Canadian Alliance/Conservative parties in Western Canada has been phenomenal, from 33 per cent in 1996 to 71 per cent in the 2008 election. Nationally, 60 per cent of evangelicals backed the Conservatives in 2006. Behiels sees the next election as a "competition of values. There are values on the right which are deeply imbued with religious fundamentalism but you also have longstanding, deeply-entrenched liberal values in Canada that are just as important to people and must be defended." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 21, 2009 1:25 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Column: Bye Bye Body Armour Bye Bye Body Armour By 250 News - Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:35 AM http://www.opinion250.com/blog/view/14345/3/bye+bye+body+armour Victoria, B.C.- Gang members and organized criminals will no longer be able to hide behind body armour. Solicitor General Kash Heed has introduced Canada's first act that sets up a licensing and criminal record check regime for the sale and purchase of body armour. The Body Armour Control Act is part of Premier Gordon Campbell's seven-point plan to combat gang and gun violence announced in February of this year. "Police see it all too often," said Heed. "The gang member or organized criminal is out on our streets and in our neighbourhoods while hiding behind the added protection of bulletproof vests as innocent bystanders remain unprotected and vulnerable. By taking away criminals' sense of security, we decrease the potential for violence in public settings." Highlights of the act include: * Enhancing public safety by placing controls on the possession of body armour and by providing police with the authority to seize body armour from those who are not authorized to possess it. * Licensing businesses and their employees who sell body armour, under the Security Services Act. * Requiring body armour applicants to obtain permits that prove a reasonable need for the possession of body armour. * Requiring applicants to undergo a criminal record check. * Individuals found in contravention of this act can be fined up to $10,000 and incarcerated for up to six months. * Businesses found in contravention of this act can be fined up to $100,000 and their officers incarcerated for up to six months. Businesses and individuals will have six months to comply once the new legislation comes into force. Under the act, police have the ability to seize body armour that is illegally sold or possessed. Workers whose jobs require them to wear body armour will be exempt from having to carry a permit. They include police officers, sheriffs, corrections officers, conservation officers, armoured car guards, security guards, security consultants and private investigators. The legislation is the first of its kind in Canada. Both the U.S. and Australia have criminal and regulatory measures to restrict body armour ownership. "Police have seen an increase in gangs, guns, drugs, intimidation and violence on our streets, and we need to nip gang activity in the bud," said Supt. Bill McKinnon, head of the B.C. Association of Chiefs of Police. "By restricting body armour, police now have another tool in the fight against gangs and gun violence." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 21, 2009 1:28 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Registry Status? MP says it's a 2 billion dollar boondoggle Registry Status? Written by Mike McLean - Wednesday, 21 October 2009 http://www.discoverfoothills.com/index.php?option=com_ezine&task=read&page=14&category=35&article=10553&Itemid=257 Macleod's MP says it's a 2 billion dollar boondoggle that continues to be challenged by the opposition. Ted Menzies says it's a struggle to get some members of parliament to realize that gun control hasn't done anyone any good and has become a burden. "One of the groups that we tend to forget how it impacts is the first nations", he says, "for them to have deal with this crazy registry that hasn't worked for anybody and is very difficult to work with is ridiculous". Menzies says while most Canadians don't want to maintain the system, the majority of the House need to be convinced that the long gun registry is due to expire. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:48:01 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Column: Bye Bye Body Armour whoopee do chit whats to stop the crims from going to another province and getting it ? no border hassles either . ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:25 AM Subject: Column: Bye Bye Body Armour > > Bye Bye Body Armour > By 250 News - Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:35 AM > http://www.opinion250.com/blog/view/14345/3/bye+bye+body+armour > > Victoria, B.C.- Gang members and organized criminals will no longer be > able >snip > "Police see it all too often," said Heed. "The gang member or organized > criminal is out on our streets and in our neighbourhoods while hiding > behind the added protection of bulletproof vests as innocent bystanders > remain unprotected and vulnerable. By taking away criminals' sense of > security, we decrease the potential for violence in public settings." > > Highlights of the act include: >snip > Businesses and individuals will have six months to comply once the new > legislation comes into force. Under the act, police have the ability to > seize body armour that is illegally sold or possessed. Workers whose jobs > require them to wear body armour will be exempt from having to carry a > permit. They include police officers, sheriffs, corrections officers, > conservation officers, armoured car guards, security guards, security > consultants and private investigators. >snip > "Police have seen an increase in gangs, guns, drugs, intimidation and > violence on our streets, and we need to nip gang activity in the bud," > said Supt. Bill McKinnon, head of the B.C. Association of Chiefs of > Police. "By > restricting body armour, police now have another tool in the fight > against gangs and gun violence." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:54:37 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: National Post: What (Liberals think) a woman wants This is all about women. what happened to the men in this country ? ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" To: "Firearms Digest" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: National Post: What (Liberals think) a woman wants > NATIONAL POST - OCTOBER 21, 2009 > David Akin: What (Liberals think) a woman wants > > The Liberals will release Pink Book III today at an event on Parliament > Hill. The Pink Book is the policy ideas developed and advanced by the > Liberal Women's Caucus and forms part of the party's platform during a > federal election. > > Here's a look back at the first two Pink Books: > http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/10/21/david-akin-what-liberals-think-a-woman-wants.aspx >snip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:10:31 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trigger Mortis" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:43 PM Subject: RE: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen > "If you seek peace prepare for war" > > I have seen this quote from as far back as Roman Senate member Appius > Claudius the Blind. > > To put it in current vernacular if you are ready willing and able to > fight no one will pick a fight with you. > > Alan Harper > > alan__harper@hotmail.com > > SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM > > ************************* ya Roosevelt had the same motto, only his was "talk softly and carry a big stick" different words , same meaning ed/on ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:08:35 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: "BIBLE HATERS" ARE FURIOUS THAT JURY USED BIBLE TO DETERMINE.... October 21st 2009 JPFO ALERT: "BIBLE HATERS" ARE FURIOUS THAT JURY USED BIBLE TO DETERMINE THEIR VERDICT. Amnesty International and other worshippers of big government want a death sentence verdict for a cold blooded murderer dismissed because biblical law was consulted in deciding the verdict. You may wish to read the news article - start here - http://www.alternet.org/blogs/rights/143324/playing_god_texas_jury_consulted_bible_before_sentencing_man_to_death (note links to the Guardian.co.uk and Amnesty International - also all the material is archived here - http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/texas-jury-bible.htm ) - but we do seriously encourage you to read the forceful response by Rabbi Dovid Bendory - http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/bendory-jury-bible.htm You will find living by biblical law instead of dying by government law to be a better alternative. Of course the Obamanoids will hate you for that decision. This alert, on JPFO - http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20091021.htm The Liberty Crew Protecting you by creating solutions to destroy "gun control" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:16:59 -0600 From: "Jim Szpajcher" Subject: Re: News Durham - Teens charged after guns, ammo stolen Al - I know about this one: > > SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM > > ************************* I was wondering about this one: > Hollow point ammo is legal in Canada for pistol and rifle. > > Alan Harper > > alan__harper@hotmail.com > > SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM > > ************************* I thought perhaps you had some coded message there. Thanks for sharing... Jim Szpajcher St. Paul, AB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, October 21, 2009 10:26 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Tories promoting plan to scrap gun registry WINNIPEG SUN - OCTOBER 21, 2009 Tories promoting plan to scrap gun registry By KATHLEEN HARRIS, SUN MEDIA http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2009/10/21/11481456.html OTTAWA - Conservatives are targeting Opposition-held ridings with flyers promoting a controversial plan to repeal the gun registry. Manitoba MP Candice Hoeppner confirmed the party will drop "10-per-centers" to raise awareness about C-391, her private member's bill that aims to repeal the long-gun registry. "There are a lot of opposition members who have previously expressed that they don't support the registry, so we want to make sure they're members who come out and vote to end it," she told Sun Media. Hoeppner said her bill will force individual MPs of all parties to take an "open, free" stand and vote on the issue, which has triggered emotional debate since it was brought in 14 years ago. They can't be "whipped" to vote along party lines. "We certainly have a problem in this country with gun crime, and that problem is growing. We have to face that," she said. "But a huge percentage of that crime is with handguns that are smuggled in. It's gang-related crime, not with law-abiding long gun owners." The flyers will go out before her bill goes to a first vote Nov. 4. Liberal MP Mark Holland called the move a "partisan trick." "Introducing it as a private member's bill, yet promoting it with taxpayer-paid, partisan 10-per-centers really reveals their true face on this," he said. "At a time when we can see just how serious an issue guns are, when we need to have mature debate on it." A gunman held a number of hostages in the Workers' Compensation Board building in downtown Edmonton yesterday. But Hoeppner said most incidents of violence prove the registry is ineffective. "The registry doesn't stop people from committing crimes. It has just been a huge amount of money, time and energy," she said. kathleen.harris@sunmedia.ca ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V13 #501 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)