Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, July 17 2008 Volume 11 : Number 741 In this issue: Jules to Willy Floyd STATISTICS CANADA - CRIME STATISTICS, 2007 Column: Suicidal to buy a gun? Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V11 #737 Re: Working Together: The Operation Re: Letter: Learning self-defence only option for safety ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:07:09 -0400 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Jules to Willy Floyd Got to thank Jules for his treatise on 'volunteers.' His caution about defusing the RFC's political effort is well taken. So I agree with Jules (a Preston Manning - Reform conservative), and disagree (as a Bill Davis - progressive conservative), and will in my indeterminable way pen a cogent response. But that's the way with the RFC. We're never on the same page in the old hymn book - heck we're often in totally different texts. I got to hand it to the moderator, too. How he keeps up with all this chatter is beyond expectations. ATTABOY, Dave! I couldn't resist this short tale from Jules home area. > Coming home from Lindsay .. An Amish Farmer > > ........now there’s nothing wrong with Amish people. You’d almost > think they were all gun owners - - ‘An armed society is a polite > society.’ Their children are well mannered and the ladies are > impeccably dressed in one of several traditional garbs. (Can’t figure > the difference between the full black shawls vs. the little white > beanie hair nets). > > The Amish Farmer > > An Amish farmer driving his buggy home from Lindsay, Ontario, notices > a man drinking water, from his pond in the pasture field along the > road with his cupped hand. > > The Amish man shouts over: 'Trink das wasser nicht. Di e kuhen haben > dahin gesheissen.' (Which means: 'Don't drink the water, the cows > have shit in it).' > > The man shouts back: 'I'm a Muslim; I don't understand your > gibberish. Speak English, infidel!' > > The Amish man shouts back: 'Use two hands, you'll get more!!' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, July 17, 2008 10:27 am From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 2" Subject: STATISTICS CANADA - CRIME STATISTICS, 2007 STATISTICS CANADA - CRIME STATISTICS, 2007 Canada's national crime rate, based on data reported by police, declined for the third consecutive year in 2007, continuing the downward trend in police-reported crime since the rate peaked in 1991. http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/080717/d080717b.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:45:24 -0600 From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Column: Suicidal to buy a gun? CHAPMAN: Suicidal to buy a gun? Thursday, July 17, 2008 http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/17/suicidal-to-buy-a-gun/ COMMENTARY: Americans often buy guns for self-defense, a purpose that now has Supreme Court validation. But according to advocates of gun control, those purchasers overlook the people who pose the greatest threat: themselves. Anyone who acquires a firearm, we are told, is inviting a bloody death by suicide. So says Matthew Miller, a professor at the Harvard School of Public Health. "If you bought a gun today, I could tell you the risk of suicide to you and your family members is going to be two- to tenfold higher over the next 20 years," he told The Washington Post. Since the chance of a gun being used for suicide is so much higher than the chance of it being used to prevent a murder, we would all be better off with fewer firearms around. It's a rich irony - as though smoke alarms were increasing fire fatalities. But the argument raises two questions: Is it true? And, when it comes to gun control policy, does it matter? As it turns out, the claims about guns and suicide don't stand up well to scrutiny. A 2004 report by the National Academy of Sciences was doubtful, noting that the alleged association is small and may be illusory. Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck says there are at least 13 published studies finding no meaningful connection between the rate of firearms and the rate of suicides. The consensus of experts, he says, is that an increase in gun ownership doesn't raise the number of people who kill themselves - only the number who do it with a gun. That makes obvious sense. Someone who really wants to commit suicide doesn't need a .38, because alternative methods abound. Gun opponents, however, respond that guns inevitably raise the rate because they're uniquely lethal. Take away the gun, and you greatly increase the chance of survival. But in his 1997 book, "Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control," Mr. Kleck points out that "suicide attempts with guns are only slightly more likely to end in death than those involving hanging, carbon monoxide poisoning, or drowning." It's not hard to think of some other pretty foolproof means of self-destruction - such as jumping off a tall (or even not so tall) building, stepping in front of a train or driving at 80 miles per hour into a telephone pole. People who use guns are generally hell-bent on ending their lives. So deprived of a sidearm, they will no doubt find another reliable method - rather than swallow a dozen aspirin and wake up in the emergency room. Banning guns is no more likely to reduce suicides than banning ice cream is to curb obesity. A few decades ago, various European countries changed the type of natural gas used for home heating and cooking - replacing a toxic form with a harmless variety. That step eliminated one time-tested way of killing oneself. Alas, while the number of gas suicides declined, in most of these countries, the death toll didn't. The same pattern holds for guns. The National Academy of Sciences report noted that any link between firearms and suicides "is not found in comparisons across countries." The number of guns in a nation tells you nothing about its suicide rate. But let's suppose science could establish that people who obtain firearms do indeed increase their death rate (or the death rate of their family members) from suicide. So what? Buying a car may shorten your lifespan, since traffic accidents are a major killer. Building a backyard swimming pool creates a potential fatal hazard to you and your loved ones. But nobody says the government should interfere with such decisions. Personal safety is a far more central matter of individual autonomy than those choices. A mentally stable person living in a crime-ridden neighborhood should be free to judge whether she is more at risk from street criminals than from a spell of intense depression. Presumptuous paternalists argue that Americans should be deprived of guns because gun owners are their own worst enemies. A lot of Americans would reply: We can't trust ourselves, but we can trust you? Steve Chapman is a nationally syndicated columnist. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:40:52 -0600 From: "Roger" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V11 #737 > "...The Money will only be sent to Gary Breitkreuz, our brother in > arms..." > > That's a great idea! From now on ALL my political donations will be made > to Garry Breitkreuz. Yes, that is a really good idea! If everyone did this, it would send an unmistakable message to the CPC. I`m sending out a $10.00 money order today, to start. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:41:56 -0500 From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: Working Together: The Operation At 11:35 PM 7/16/2008 -0600, you wrote: > > >Bruce Mills wrote: >> I'd like to sort of refocus things a bit, by outlining how I think this >> whole thing should work. We have a proposed target audience, and some >> good messages, now we need a way to put things into practice. >> > > >I agree with Bruce. We want as many people as possible to be involved, >especially firearms owners. One of the problems is that many firearms >owners believe that we cannot win, not even a little bit. > >In order to get firearms owners active we have to start winning battles. >We need to pick battles that can be easily won, both with the government >and with the public. We didn't get to where we are today in one step >and we won't get back to where we want to be in one step. This is a war >of inches. > > >Here for your consideration is my 12 point plan. > > >1. Repeal the registry of rifles and shotguns. The government is > already on our side and the public is aware of the enormous cost. > Repealing sections 91 and 92 of the criminal code of Canada is far more important. This is the section that outlaws firearms completely and would take effect if the firearms act were to be repealed and not replaced. The firearms act actually allows possession off firearms in spite of sectins 91 and 92 of the criminal code. The rest of this is very nice to think about and would make things more pleasant for law abiding gun owners but does not deal with the root of the registration and licensing issue. The gun registry is a diversion as well. THe real danger to gun owners is licensing and the powers the minister of Justice and the bureaucrats have to limit who gets a license and the fee for issuing a firearms license. >2. Eliminate the Authorization to Transport for handguns. I already > have a firearms license, the handgun is registered, it has a trigger > lock on it and it is in a locked case. Another piece of paper is not > going to make anyone any safer. We can suggest to the government > that they make the firearms license the ATT. Now before anyone > starts jumping up and down screaming that I am in favour of > licensing, this is just one step towards the goal. Read on. > > >3-10. There are many possibilities here, and I am not sure what order >they should be in, or even if all of them should be in here, and I am >sure that I missed a few. > > - Repeal the 12(6) prohibitions. .25 and .32 handguns are not killing > anyone on the streets of Toronto, the gang members want bigger guns. > > - Repeal any prohibition based on appearance. Looks don't kill. > > - Eliminate the registration of handguns. We have registered handguns > since the 1930's and it hasn't helped one bit. > > - Eliminate the prohibition on large capacity magazines. > > - Eliminate the prohibition on silencers. > > - Allow the open carry of handguns. > > - Allow the concealed carry of handguns. > > - Repeal the prohibition of Converted Autos and Full Autos. > > >11. Repeal the Firearms Act. > > >12. Put the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in the Charter of Rights and > Freedoms. > > >Now for the bad news. Very few of us reading this message today (it is >July 16, 2008 as I write this) will be around to see Step 12 come to >pass. Expect that each step will take 2 to 5 years to accomplish. >There are 12 steps. Do the math. Many people will join as we start >winning battles. Some will also leave. Some will die. Some will >accept that they can live with Step 7, or 8, or maybe 4. We thank them >for their participation, their contribution, and we continue on. > > >We will need to attract and recruit the next generation, and the >generation after that. When the time comes when political parties start >offering us Steps 6, 7 and 8 in return for our support we have to >refuse. The reason is that the next school shooting, or mass murder, or >gang war will be blamed on the lax firearms laws and we lose the support >of the public. We need to move slowly and gradually one step at a time. >We want to win this war once and for all. > > > >It is my hope that a plan like this can give us the focus we need to >agree on what we want to achieve - the next step in the plan. Our >biggest impediment is our fighting amongst ourselves. One group will >settle for ending the registry, another wants the Firearms Act to be >repealed, still others focus on the licensing. What we have to realize >is that each of these arguments is a step in what we really want - the >Right to Keep and Bear Arms. > > >The one thing that we need to make this work is strong, effective and >committed leadership. > > >I welcome your feedback, positive and negative. Feel free to develop >your own plan and share it with us. Once we have a plan that we can all >agree with, then we can start to make things happen. > >Alfred Hovdestad > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:35:51 -0400 From: "mred" Subject: Re: Letter: Learning self-defence only option for safety - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 2" To: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:37 AM Subject: Letter: Learning self-defence only option for safety > PUBLICATION: The StarPhoenix (Saskatoon) > DATE: 2008.07.17 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: Forum > PAGE: A7 > BYLINE: Ron Shick > SOURCE: The StarPhoenix > WORD COUNT: 273 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Learning self-defence only option for safety These are empty words for those of us to weak to either learn self-defense or use it. ed/on ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V11 #741 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:drg.jordan@sasktel.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)