From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #840 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, September 18 2006 Volume 09 : Number 840 In this issue: Re: Ottawa Citizen Column: Give us one good reason Re: COLUMN: PULLING THE PLUG ON VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES Re: Letter: Ban all guns Re: Letter: Life worth more Re: Toronto Star Editorial: Canada's gun laws must be tougher Re: Washington Police Host Buyback to Get Firearms Re: Global gun 'Rights' Re: Ottawa Citizen Column: Give us one good reason RE: NFA running PFCS Re: Letter: Ban all guns Re: Global gun 'Rights' RE: The CPC and us Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #837 Statistics in England - ripost required asap Contact info for B.C. Today's the day to expose youngsters to hunting Re: The CPC and us Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #837 The Aftermath RE: Ottawa Citizen Column: Give us one good reason ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:54:50 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Ottawa Citizen Column: Give us one good reason - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen > DATE: 2006.09.18 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: News > PNAME: Editorial > PAGE: A10 > COLUMN: Susan Riley > BYLINE: Susan Riley > SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen > WORD COUNT: 825 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > One good reason > > Susan Riley's column runs Monday, Wednesday and Friday. E-mail: > sriley@thecitizen.canwest.com strange how its mostly women who wish to emasculate legal gun-owners ? ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:55:19 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: COLUMN: PULLING THE PLUG ON VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Sun > DATE: 2006.09.17 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: News > PAGE: 5 > ILLUSTRATION: photo THE CREATOR of Super Columbine Massacre RPG has > expressed condolences for the Montreal shootings on his website after it > was revealed the killer was a fan of the game. > BYLINE: MIKE STROBEL > WORD COUNT: 402 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > MORE THAN JUST A GAME > WE NEED TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT PULLING THE PLUG ON VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES, > WRITES MIKE STROBEL, BEFORE THEY TURN UP IN ANOTHER KILLING SPREE > > If it were so bad the government would stop it .How else would you brain > wash young people to enlist in the army when most of their formative years > have been playing killer games . They are ALREADY trained by the video games. Then they find out its not click and start over again. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:56:06 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Letter: Ban all guns - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: The Record (Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo) > DATE: 2006.09.18 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: OPINION > PAGE: A8 > BYLINE: Blake Ziegler > WORD COUNT: 190 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Ban all guns > > Why not ban guns altogether? Some would argue that they are useful for > self- defence, hunting and as collector's items. These arguments come > from the minority, and as shown by the recent Ontario smoking ban, the > minority does not matter when the health of the public is at stake. It > is clear that public safety would be increased dramatically if guns were > banned and the law to do so is past due. > > Blake Ziegler > Waterloo Smart move ~!!! It will certainly give entrepreneurs motive to bring in MORE illegal guns into Canada . Theres nothing like free enterprise is there ? LOL ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:56:48 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Letter: Life worth more - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: Calgary Herald > DATE: 2006.09.18 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: Q: Queries - Quibbles - Quirks > PAGE: A9 > BYLINE: Kent Ertman > SOURCE: Calgary Herald > WORD COUNT: 128 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Life worth more > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Montreal - Re: "Let police do their jobs; facts will emerge," Letter, > Sept. 14. > > We now have definitive answers. The killer who walked into Dawson > College and shot 20 bystanders did so with a legally acquired and > registered firearm. > > Michael Veitch (president of the Stony Plain Fish & Game Association) is > free to accuse me of "spouting rhetoric," but the fact is an 18-year-old > girl would still be alive today if private citizens were not allowed to > own firearms. > > I was never an advocate for gun control until today. > > Now I bear the guilt of knowing I facilitated Kimveer Gill's killing > spree, because I never opposed a system that allows murderers to get > their hands on weapons more deadly than we allow our police. > > Mr. Veitch, I would trade your right to own a firearm for the life of an > 18-year-old any day of the week. > > I'd like to think you'd do the same. > > Kent Ertman, Strathmore Uhuh we could becom elike england and austaralia who ahve seen an increase in gun crime since guns were virtually banned and confiscated ther . If thats what you want for Canada then go for it . My answer is to tarin and arm TEACHERS IN SCHOOL STO HELP THEMSELVES WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS WILL HAPPEN. An armed society is a polite society and much safer too. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:59:18 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Toronto Star Editorial: Canada's gun laws must be tougher - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: The Toronto Star > DATE: 2006.09.18 > EDITION: ONT > SECTION: Editorial > PAGE: A20 > WORD COUNT: 761 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Canada's gun laws must be tougher > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Kimveer Gill, who wrote about wanting to be the Angel of Death, never > should have been licensed to own a restricted Beretta rifle and Glock > pistol or a 12-gauge shotgun. He wrote on the Internet that "anger and > hatred simmers within me." He reviled police, posted pictures of himself > pointing weapons and fantasized about going on a killing spree. > > Friends knew "he had a big problem with humanity in general" long before > he gunned down 20 people in a rampage last week at Dawson College in > Montreal, then shot himself. Some neighbours said they feared him. > > Yet Gill was licensed - and for that Montreal police owe an explanation. > Was Gill properly screened before he was licensed to buy guns? Did > police query his parents, employers, friends, neighbours? Or run a web > check on him? How did he become one of the relatively few Canadians > allowed to own a handgun? Do procedures need tightening up? Nearly > 18,000 licences have been refused or revoked in the past decade. Why > wasn't Gill one of them? An independent review may be needed. > > Gill's rampage has rekindled debate over whether guns should be banned > except for the military and police. But all of the 2 million Canadian > gun owners should not be punished for the act of one deranged person. > > Across Canada, ranchers and farmers need firearms to protect livestock > from predators. Bush pilots, prospectors, backcountry guides, trappers > and others carry firearms to survive if they run into trouble. Some > people hunt to supplement their winter food supply. A ban would end > Canada's presence in Olympic and international shooting events. By this criteria all legal citizens should be allowed the right to carry ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:03:35 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Washington Police Host Buyback to Get Firearms - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: The Washington Post > SECTION: Metro > DATE: 2006.09.17 > PAGE: C03 > BYLINE: Allison Klein > WORD COUNT: 558 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Residents Cash In Guns for Peace of Mind; District Police Host Buyback > to Get Firearms Out of Homes and Off the Streets Our pioneers and war vets must be turning over in their graves ? ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:04:34 -0600 (CST) From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: Global gun 'Rights' At 11:25 PM 9/17/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "10x" <10x@telus.net> > >> At 07:57 PM 9/17/2006 -0600, you wrote: >> >> Peter what the RFC really needs is for all the firearms owners groups to >> be on the same page, and not to have hidden agendas. Some of the groups >> support licensing because they can gain members and sell memberships to >> people they help to get a firearms license. Other groups have a interest >> in selling liabliaty insurance to individuals and gun ranges. > >Fine. You state the obvious. This is why the RFC is on the verge of >extinction. What I ask is, "can we unite with *one* voice?" > >Can we not get the NRA The NRA only operates within the borders of the U.S.A. They have no mandate from their members or Constitution that allows them to be politically active in any other country than the U.S.A. >We need to promote our sport in a positive light and dismiss the >negative images perpetuated by the likes of the CGC. Perhaps one of the >answers lies in using the very medium that has pilloried us for so long >--The media. You are correct, get the media to support you and public opinion will soon follow. >Through paid advertising, ie: billboards, twenty seconds radio sound >bites. Even public affairs programs might show interest if we polished >up our image and start coming across as concerned citizens who are >championing the cause of civil rights, property rights, conservation, >Canadian heritage ...and who happen to own firearms. The key is to reach those Canadians who are in possession of firearms and educate them on the perils of the firearms act and sections 91 and 92 of the criminal code. Reaching these people throuh advertising is expensive. It does work somewhat but it doesn't work well. The CFGC gets a great deal of Stealth Advertising through press releases and sound bites on the news. It is only recently that the individuals representing RFC groups have been contacted by the media for intrepretation of events. And they have been fair in reporting the views of these organizations. There have been several reporters who have not attacked and blamed all gun owners for this last shooting in Montreal. The key is education, of the RFC, the public, and those who write the stories for the news media. MOst importantly we have to educate the public servants and the politicians. Through the efforts of many of the people who write some very good letters, some of whom are on this list, firearms owners are making a diference. You are right, the media is the key. Showing the media there is a great deal of interest in getting our message out and that it does sell advertising space will help us to reach our goals. Replacement of the firearms act with legislation that is effective to reduce crime. A indivdiual writing a letter is just one voice but that letter stands for a number of voters. A RFC group is also just one voice and that doesn't seem to carry as much weight as fifty or one hundred letters from constituents - even though the group may have several thousand people as members. Individual letters carry the most weight with politicians. The more folks write letters, the more politicians seem to be able to understand that people are not pleased and they will work to please these voters. And you are right, RFC groups should be targeting their audience and doing far more advertising. their audience 1) gun owners, 2) non gun owners 3) the media 4) politicians 5) civil servants. We have done very well for a bevy of groups with far diferent goals. One thing that ALL Firearms owners groups agree on is that the current firearms law is ineffective and dealing with gun owners does not address the criminal use of firearms. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:06:10 -0600 (CST) From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: Ottawa Citizen Column: Give us one good reason At 07:42 AM 9/18/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > >PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen >DATE: 2006.09.18 >EDITION: Final >SECTION: News >PNAME: Editorial >PAGE: A10 >COLUMN: Susan Riley >BYLINE: Susan Riley >SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen >WORD COUNT: 825 > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >One good reason > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >One good reason. Give us one good reason why the guns that Kimveer Gill >used to such deadly effect last week -- guns primarily intended to kill >people, not ducks or deer, or targets -- should not be immediately >banned? One very good reason is that the writer of this is blaming the firearms for the actions of Mr. Gill. Mr. Gill could have used any one of a number of weapons including matches and gasoline to kill and injure far larger number of people. The largest mass murder in Canada was a result of an arson in Montreal. 37 people died because the exits were blocked with hockey sticks and coat hangers. Do we blame the match and the gasoline for the arson? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:06:36 -0600 (CST) From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: RE: NFA running PFCS At 07:40 AM 9/18/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > >Vladyslav Strashko wrote: > >> I'm not sure who they (The NFA) corrupt when $26 out of $30 goes into >publications.... > >(Reply): > >So I gather that this is enough for you to determine if the NFA is >corrupt or not? Most of us see it differently and are looking for the >NFA to provide a proper financial report to account for the money >collected, for what purpose, and how it was used. The N.F.A. has not made the fiancial records available for scrutiny for many years. How do you know this information is true? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:07:01 -0600 (CST) From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: Letter: Ban all guns At 08:13 AM 9/18/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > >PUBLICATION: The Record (Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo) >DATE: 2006.09.18 >EDITION: Final >SECTION: OPINION >PAGE: A8 >BYLINE: Blake Ziegler >WORD COUNT: 190 > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Ban all guns > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >In light of the recent tragic shootings in Montreal, I think it's time >we took a look at our gun control in Canada. Our U.S. neighbours have >the right to bear arms and their high gun crime rate shows this is not >the answer. Our national gun registry program has come under fire >because it does not prosecute owners who do not register their guns, >ended up costing more than originally expected, and did not result in a >marked increase in public safety (shown in the auditor general's >report). So this is not the answer either. > >Why not ban guns altogether? Some would argue that they are useful for >self- defence, hunting and as collector's items. These arguments come >from the minority, and as shown by the recent Ontario smoking ban, the >minority does not matter when the health of the public is at stake. It >is clear that public safety would be increased dramatically if guns were >banned and the law to do so is past due. Once again liberal minded folk come out and use one incident to stereotype and blame two million firearms owners and their guns for the actions of a mentally ill, violent individual. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:07:39 -0600 (CST) From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: Global gun 'Rights' At 07:36 AM 9/18/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "bletchley park" > >> Your thoughts on this important matter, please and thank you. >> >> Respectfully, >> Peter > >We need ALL gun-owners to contribute one lousy dollar a year to our cause . > >This would generate half a million dollars for us to do just about >anything we want. Ed, there are at least 2 million licensed gun owners in Canada and possibly as many as 2.5 million who didn't bother to get a firearms license. One dollar from each of them would give a 4.5 million dollar fund. >But we need a leader who will work for us . If the RFC had 4.5 million dollars to spend, there would be a fight to see would lead the RFC. I would do it for a dollar a year and I would pay my own expenses. That is a dollar more a year than I'm getting for what I currently do for the RFC. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:08:47 -0600 (CST) From: "B&C Beaudoin" Subject: RE: The CPC and us Al wrote: >At the present time the CPC needs to know that C-21 is unacceptable and >guarantees the withdrawal of our support if not altered to our >satisfaction or withdrawn. The CPC owes a large part of their present >status to gun owners. If we act in unison will we carry the day. >History will judge our future decisions just as surely as it has judged >those we made in the past. Al, The CPC has alluded that C-21 is a work in progress and changes can be made. Just how does the CPC owe a large part of their present status to gun owners? (Lots of Liberal, NDP, Bloc gun owners!) The RFC has always had the vision that if we act in unison, we will carry the day - but that never has materialised, partly because gun owners will never vote as a block. When taking over our Liberal riding association back in '95 I was astonished at the numbers of firearms owners I met that were card carrying Liberals and that wholeheartedly supported C-68. So you see that not every gun owner supports a return to the rights and freedoms set out in the English declaration of rights or the Magna Carta.=20 Regards, Brad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:09:16 -0600 (CST) From: Bill Farion Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #837 Hi; Were the perpetrators of the Ecol Polytec and Dawson muslim terrorists??? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:09:55 -0600 (CST) From: "Thom McMillan" Subject: Statistics in England - ripost required asap I would like help, either direct quotes to the contrary or where to source the information to refute the following statement from a poster on another discussion list, and yes, this gentlemen is from England. "only three people died in the UK from gunshot wounds last year" I strongly suspect the above statement is just too blatently anti-firearm to be true... Thom MacMillan, avid firearm owner & hunter, for now... >Support criminal control, not placebo gun control ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:10:37 -0600 (CST) From: "Thom McMillan" Subject: Contact info for B.C. Would some one please provide contact info for firearm associations in the province of British Columbia? Interested in acquiring training in self-defence. Feel free to post me off the list. Thom MacMillan, NS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:10:45 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Majordomo User) Subject: Today's the day to expose youngsters to hunting PUBLICATION: The Guardian (Charlottetown) DATE: 2006.09.16 SECTION: Features PAGE: C3 WORD COUNT: 252 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's the day to expose youngsters to hunting in controlled environment - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ While the hunting season is still a few weeks away, young Islanders interested in the sport of waterfowl hunting will have the opportunity to practise their skills this weekend. Islanders are reminded today has been designated as Waterfowler Heritage Day. The objective is to give young hunters the opportunity to experience the sport of waterfowl hunting in a safe, controlled and supervised environment. Today, youth ages 12 to 17 can hunt when accompanied by a licensed adult hunter who serves as a mentor. The mentor is not permitted to hunt but is there to provide a safe and practical hunting environment and to develop hunting skills, conservation and the ethical aspects of hunting. To be eligible to participate in the Waterfowler Heritage Day hunt, youth must have completed a hunter safety course, be accompanied by an adult licensed hunter and have a special permit from the Department of Environment, Energy and Forestry. There is no charge for the permit, however, it allows the department to keep track of the number of participants and ensure that they meet the safety requirements. Waterfowler Heritage Day comes on the heels of a very successful Youth Waterfowl Hunting Workshop. This year's event attracted more than 125 young people. The full-day workshop took the participants through all the preparation for a safe, ethical and successful waterfowl hunt. It included classroom and hands-on instruction on everything from waterfowl identification and blinds and decoys to bow hunting, duck and goose calling, hunter safety and conservation ethics. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:14:21 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: The CPC and us B&C Beaudoin wrote: > The CPC has alluded that C-21 is a work in progress and changes can be > made. And they've already stated that "nobody will get rid of licensing"... > When taking over our Liberal riding association back in '95 I was > astonished at the numbers of firearms owners I met that were card > carrying Liberals and that wholeheartedly supported C-68. So you see > that not every gun owner supports a return to the rights and freedoms > set out in the English declaration of rights or the Magna Carta.=20 And that makes them either deluded fools, or totalitarian statists - in the end, the result is the same. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:15:54 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #837 Bill Farion wrote: > Hi; > Were the perpetrators of the Ecol Polytec and Dawson muslim terrorists??? No. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:47:42 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: The Aftermath The 'Grief Industry' sure hit the jack pot with 60 counsellors getting work at Dawson College as the doors re-open. I wonder how many are being provided for the families of the four Canadian soldiers just killed in 'Stan, those who died previously and for those yet to come? A recent analysis says that Canadian troops are 4.5 x's more likely to die as Brit and 6 x's more likely to die than US troops in Iraq, supposedly a more dangerous mission. Those who are disillusioned with the CPC up to this point need to consider what we would be facing if the Liberals were still dominant in the House. Every knee jerk reation imaginable would become law overnight through OIC and things would be changed irrevocably for outr lifetimes. The light is never going to go in the brains of the antis that blaming the object instead of the user is idiotic. Emotion will outweigh logic in this discussion every time. Rather than wait for a response from the gov't, we need to anticipate what appeasement they might be offering to tighten things up on firearms ownership as a result of this recent event. It is inconceivable to me that there will not be some form of regulatory impact (i.e. restricting semi-auto rifles) and a softening on the committment to dismantle the Registry. TB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:48:00 -0600 (CST) From: "Ed Sieb" Subject: RE: Ottawa Citizen Column: Give us one good reason She's a proto-communist anyway, or at very least an ultra-liberal. She want's a safe world, even if it's legislated. Ed Sieb - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ed sed: > Susan Riley's column runs Monday, Wednesday and Friday. E-mail: > sriley@thecitizen.canwest.com strange how its mostly women who wish to emasculate legal gun-owners ? ed/ontario ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V9 #840 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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