From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #902 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, February 26 1999 Volume 02 : Number 902 In this issue: THE DEBATE IS NOT OVER Registrar records Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #898 Short barrelled Firearms Re: advertising, funding and non-shooters Justice Department admits folly problems & solutions Letter in Edmonton Sun Arnprior Lousy Loonie Report #6 RE: NRA Radio PAL and FAC Y2K and Self Defence Canadian Access to Firearms Vote against C-68 - A Reminder NEW! Canadian Firearms Rights Webring (and poll!) Brownells shipping to Canada Advertising...or...getting the word out... hockey in relationship to firearms ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:00:31 -0600 From: Bob Lickacz Subject: THE DEBATE IS NOT OVER Last night, Feb. 22, Annie McLelland had a town hall meeting to address the concerns of her constituents. About 40 people attended. When queried as to her comment on the day of the FED-UP 11 rally, ie. "The debate is over.", our fine Justice Minister was heard to say that this referred only to debate in the House of Commons, and that she welcomed the concerns of her constituents. There you have it. No finer lawyer weasel words (apologies to C.M. - Q.C.) were ever spoken, not even by Bill Clinton. The Justice Minister also suggested that senior people in the Justice Department didn't enjoy having to deal with one David A. Tomlinson. This has got to be a clear admission that DAT and the NFA is on the right course. I think even Annie is beginning to see a large hulking white shape through the fog. Bob Lickacz NFA Edmonton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:00:39 -0600 From: David Leskowski Subject: Registrar records It has been interesting to read about the handling of the records kept by gun shops after they go out of business. Nice to hear that in some cases, some police force actually looked at them. Or, looked at the outside of the books. However, there is a fact about these kind of records that shoots down the theory behind C-68: that police need new registration records to find out if there are firearms in homes they are planning to visit. At a recent community policing meeting held in rural Thunder Bay, our OPP officers did an admirable job telling us that the Harris government was fighting C68 in court. Next, however, they stated that registration would give them access to information about guns in homes. I asked the following questions: 1. At any time up to and including today, has any OPP officer ever requested information from gun shop sales records, to find out who has purchased guns? 2. At any time, has any police officer checked the book at Canadian Tire, to see who has been purchasing ammo (presumably for a GUN) and may be armed and dangerous? 3. At any time, has any police officer checked who has been purchasing hunting licenses, or taking hunter safety courses (presumably, these people MAY own a GUN). Without hesitation, the officer questioned answered NO to all of the above. Can anyone believe the police are serious about "just wanting to know who may have a gun", when the information at their disposal today has never been accessed (and it is readily available, for free!!) Further, if all the information from the already available sources was compared to the information which may be potentially gathered by the new, billion dollar system, how much duplication will there be? 90%? 99%? Should the police really worry about individuals who have registered a gun, but have not purchased ammo for it? Couldn't we just assume that if they purchased ammo, they may have a gun? The say truth about the matter is that the information the Federal Liberals say they must gather is known today. The lie is that we need to spend a billion dollars getting it a new way. This is the "Liberal" way, and I am sick of it. The Liberals will know for the first time who owns guns? Right after they scrap the GST, and renegotiate Free Trade. David Leskowski RR #1 Kaministiquia, ON ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:00:27 -0600 From: "Mike Bonner" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #898 I have purchased longer barrels for a 22 Beretta and a Luger, both 6". I am still looking for a mismatched Luger or frame to screw the barrel into. I got mine from Gun Parts Corp, www.gunpartscorp.com. Buy with a credit card and get THEM TO MAIL IT not UPS or you'll never see it. I had no problem getting mine in, there was duty to pay of course. Mike Bonner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:52:45 -0600 From: "William R. Sherman" Subject: Short barrelled Firearms I received several emails concerning the method to keep your short barrels, and your grandfathered status.( should you wish to put a longer barrel on and use it temporarily etc.) I've done it. It's legal, acceptable and most of all confirmed by the CFC. My S&W 686, with a 4" barrel was registered as such, however I decided to put a 6" barrel on with an adjustable front site. I reregistered it as such, however, later on I learned that the 4" barrel would become a prohibited device on its own, after Dec. 1/98. After some "discussion" with the CFC whom, (who?) like you, told me to surrender the 4" barrel, I reregistered the firearm with its 4" barrel, and registered the 6" barrel as a conversion barrel. I possess two C306's, one for the gun & 4" barrel and one for the 6" barrel. (Sorry Dave, I know the barrel is an uncontrolled part but it was either this or lose the 4" barrel) This was all carried out prior to the Dec. 1/98 deadline. As long as the 4" barrel is part of a grandfathered gun,(one which was registered continuously since Feb.14/95) (attached or not it doesn't matter) its okay, but if its on its own, its considered a prohibited device. I was told that you have to have grandfathered status for short barreled firearms, and your short barreled firearm had to be in the registration system as such, prior to Feb. 14/95. If you purchased your shorty, after Feb.14/95, and it wasn't already in our registration system you may be out of luck as far as keeping the gun , let alone the barrel.. If you want to replace the short barrel with a longer barrel and keep the short barrel, don't reregister the gun with the longer barrel, register the longer barrel as a conversion barrel., then you are free to use either barrel on the gun. Don't forget to carry both C306's with you. That's how it was explained to me by the CFC! Bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:52:39 -0600 From: "Alfred.Hovdestad@usask.ca" Subject: Re: advertising, funding and non-shooters > To get the public exposure we use the free publicity given by having a > news-worthy event. Remember to invite your local cable (community) channel. The local media (CBC, CTV, etc.) might give you a few minutes of news time, but not much more. The local cable channel will video tape the entire event for local broadcast. You can usually get copies of your event for your own use (presentation at local high school, old folks home, YMCA, YWCA, etc.). If you can attract some local dignitaries/celebrities, your chances of attracting the media improve. - -- Alfred Hovdestad -- Member of -- Saskatchewan Responsible Firearm Owners Saskatchewan Bowhunters Association National Firearms Association Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation Reform Party of Canada CRIME CONTROL, NOT MORE GUN CONTROL! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:52:27 -0600 From: "Barry Glasgow" Subject: Justice Department admits folly In a recent article, Canadian Firearms Centre spokesman, Jean Valin, pointed to the recent success in denying one criminal legal access to a firearm - this, supposedly, to justify their half-billion dollar, floundering long-gun registry. The Globe and Mail article cited 50 cases where applications to purchase firearms were refused but no attempt was made to determine how many of the refusals were because of mistaken identity or faulty database information. I won't hazard a guess as to what sort of brain-dead idiot would risk flagging himself to a system that checks for his criminal record but Mr. Valin apparently thinks that there are enough to justify the construction of a new building and the creation of a couple of hundred bureaucratic and clerical positions. But the key point missed in these premature and boastfull claims of resounding success is that, even if we accept that all 50 cases involved people with criminal intent and that there was no other way for those people to criminally aquire firearms, not a single instance required the registration of firearms. As we know, proper licensing and verification of individuals is what works - to some extent. Various firearms organizations have been saying this for years and the National Firearms Association long ago proposed a system that properly classifies, trains and licenses individuals while providing for severe penalties for those who operate outside of that system. Their Practical Firearms Control System is a vast improvement over the pre-existing, 20-year-old FAC system - which the Justice Department has merely reinvented to supplement its outlandish requirement to register all rifles and shotguns and all related transactions. The only enhancement has been to provide the ability for instant background checks - something that, in practice, has been neither instant nor reliable. That is something they should be focussing on and not the impossible task of uniquely identifying every firearm that has ever been manufactured over the last hundred years. The Justice Department knows that the NFA system would be monumentally cheaper than their own bureaucratic nightmare yet choose to ignore it while, amazingly, bragging about the effectiveness of licensing and verifying individuals. There has not been a hint as to the effectiveness of registering inert pieces of wood and metal. We wonder why. Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ont. 613-832-2449 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:52:37 -0600 From: "the "OVERLORD"" Subject: problems & solutions The way I see it, bill C-68 and the hoops we have to jump through are merely an attempt by the liberals to dissuade anyone from purchasing firearms in the first place and to purchase less guns overall. They want dealers out of business, and for private gun deals to dry up. This is unacceptable. We must keep dealers in business. With the new import restrictions for firearms and accessories in place soon, dealers are our only hope in keeping our sport alive. Solution: Buy guns. As many as you can afford. Do it regularly. Buy them to be stored so your children can possess them at some point. Get your kids, spouse, friends, colleagues interested in shooting. Take them out and pop some caps. I have never met a disinterested person who, upon firing a firearm, was not immediately impressed if not in love! I had to jump through so many hoops to be a firearm owner that I will protect this right with every fibre. Remeber if firearm sales decline substantially, it is another statistic for the liberals to say it is a non-sport on the decline. Don't let that happen! Dave The Overlord Special Forces Site http://home.istar.ca/~overlord/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:52:53 -0600 From: "Tom Zinck" Subject: Letter in Edmonton Sun http://www.canoe.com/EdmontonSun/editorial.html RE: HEADLINES "North-end house hit by eight bullets; Freddy Krueger robs eatery; Still in shock" - masked bandits terrorize family with guns, which appeared in your Feb. 11 edition. All these heinous acts were perpetrated with handguns. They should pass a law so tough that you have to be investigated by the police, pass a competency test, get a licence to possess one and one to convey and register handguns. That would put an end to this insanity. Oh yeah, they did that - in 1934. I guess it takes a while fore the good effects to "kick in," huh? G.R. Shewchuk (It is impossible to register away all violence, but your point is strongly made.) Tom Zinck : NFA, OHA, ARRA, Reform, JPFO http://www.comnet.ca/~tzinck " I came to Ottawa in November with the firm belief that the only people in this country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers" - -Alan Rock, "Taking Aim on Guns" Maclean's, April 25, 1994, pg.12 "Non-cooperation with injustice is a sacred duty." - Mahatma Gandhi - ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:52:58 -0600 From: "Tom Zinck" Subject: Arnprior Lousy Loonie Report #6 Arnprior Lousy Loonie Report #6 The Arnprior Rifle and Revolver Assoc. has collected another $36 worth of Lousy Loonies. This brings a total contribution to the NFA Legal Defense Fund to : 142 Lousy Loonies. - -Tom Zinck ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:53:00 -0600 From: "Fred Davis" Subject: RE: NRA Radio http://www.nralive.com/ You can also access it from www.nra.org Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:53:04 -0600 From: "Henry S.F. Nachaj" Subject: PAL and FAC I spoke to Kathleen Roussel this past saturday in Hull. It is of her opinion that the CFC can issue PAl instead of FAC for those that requested a FAC before Dec.1st. As to the individuals as myself, that have received a PAL without the specifier for PROHIBETED FIREARMS, it is an OOPS. They have had a number of OOPS in this case. Last Thursday, they had a conference call with the provincial CFO'S regarding this OOPS. "Anyone requesting a change to their PAL to indicate grandfathered prohibeted firearms, will get the change upon request" A note has been sent to all police departments not to prosecute anyone for not having a proper PAL while in possession of a prohibited firearm, if the holder has a valid registration for it. You must have the registration for each prohibeted firearm within reach at all times. Another note, in Quebec we get the back of the PAL in French only. As well all forms, letters and questionnairs are in French only. The only forms that are available in English are the ones from the Federal government such PAL and registration forms. Henry SF Nachaj Regional Director, Sporting Clays of America ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:53:10 -0600 From: "The Gayders" Subject: Y2K and Self Defence Justified or not, people are starting to worry about the possibility of disruptions in services caused by "Y2K", the "Milenium Bug". Two months ago, I was told by a woman who works at a shelter for battered women that some of her co workers had been discussing the possibility of acquiring firearms for protection just in case things like 911 services are affected by the Bug. This was astounding! Historically, women's shelters have NEVER been friends to gun owners or the idea of gun ownership. In fact, - many supported Wendy and C-68. Yet now their concern of being left unprotected is REAL. They are genuinely scared. (Yes- I rubbed in the irony of this to the person I was talking to. She was SHOCKED to discover just how many hoops she, an honest woman of good character, would have to jump through to legally get a firearm. ) The guarantee of the state to protect it's citizens has always been hollow. There is NO WAY they can protect everybody, even in good times. It has been a major failing of gun owners that so many of us have been reluctant to discuss this and offer solutions. Hint: read John Lott's book. Because of this experience with the lady from the shelter, I am convinced that fears associated with Y2K have the potential to change the course of debate about the role of firearms in Canadian society. Be prepared to discuss it. Have answers. See John A. Gayder Ever notice how you never hear a gun control advocate say guns should be banned because THEY THEMSELVES might go crazy and kill people with one? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:53:19 -0600 From: "paul moreau" Subject: Canadian Access to Firearms Does anyone have a current phone number to subscribe to "Canadian Access to Firearms"? Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:19:00 -0600 From: dongres Subject: Vote against C-68 - A Reminder Only a reminder to vote. http://forums.sympatico.ca/WebX/WebX.cgi?13@^622140@.eea7b81 Click on "I'm with Joel", Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:19:12 -0600 From: briandrader@canada.com Subject: NEW! Canadian Firearms Rights Webring (and poll!) I'm in the process of getting my web page online. If you've got a Canadian, Firearms-related site, you're welcome to add your site to the new Canadian Firearms Rights Webring. To add your site to the webring, use the form on my site at http://www.angelfire.com/mb/ca Also I'm taking a web-based survey at the same URL. "Should Bill C-68 be repealed" :) Let me know what you think of the site (it's still very beta) - --Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:19:17 -0600 From: "Randy & Cathy Bimson" Subject: Brownells shipping to Canada The official position of Brownells, Inc. is that they will ship by Parcel Post, DHL, or Emery Air Freight on request and as an alternative to UPS. Should you have any questions on problems in this regard please contact me personally at the e-mail address below. R.G. (Randy) Bimson rcbimson@netins.net "The People and the Industry participating in the Shooting Sports contribute more towards conservation than any other group." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:19:25 -0600 From: Mark Hughes Subject: Advertising...or...getting the word out... THIS IS MY OPINION AND MAY NOT REFLECT THE OPINION OF THE NFA OR THE N.S. NFA CHAPTER MEMBERS...but it should :-) Friends, After reading many posts on this subject, its many pros and cons, its ups and downs, its possibilities and its limitations; I think it can be said that it has a snow balls chance in **** of ever getting off the ground and is likely to be ineffective in getting the results desired. However, hats off to anyone who tries it anyway, particularly anyone who tries the internet 'netcasting'. I hope enough money comes into the NFA's new 'Advertising Funds' to get commercials on National TV (CBC) News programs during the next election campaign too! ( Everyone watches CBC News...right? ;-) What WILL work? What HAS worked? What can YOU do to help advertise and get the word out? All I can tell you is do what YOU can do in your area, in your group of peers, friends and fellow workers. Be that 'ripple' in YOUR pond and send more ripples out into your area though them...kinda like re-broadcasting networks. Start thinking like an oppressed minority...what do oppressed minorities ( or majorities ) do to get organized and spread the message out throughout the land without ever having a Radio or T.V.? They do it by organizing into cells of like minded individuals, spreading information through word of mouth, messages painted/scratched/stuck on walls, printing leaflets and having the cells spread them throughout their communities ( with "Please copy and Spread" on them ); print Manifestos, pamphlets, newsletters, magazines, newspapers, etc... Over the last 5 years the Government and Establishment News Media's have brought the individual Firearms Owner to the boiling point with their concerted attacks on our sport, our properties, our rights; Misrepresentations of our sport, our properties and our rights that have left them looking for someone, some organization to point them in a direction so as to fight back...The T.V. and Radio have already reached everyone enough, they've primed the pumps ( negatively ) and it only requires YOU to show up and guide them in the correct direction....WILL YOU BE THERE? ARE YOU THERE? HAVE YOU VOLUNTEERED YET? If your an NFA Member, you should be volunteering to be a Field Officer and getting the literature and spreading the news and getting memberships in...there's just no excuse... email Jim Hinter right now and volunteer to be a Field Officer and get some literature sent to you pronto and get in there swinging....mailto:jhinter@tcel.com or mailto:jhinter@shopnfa.com I'm not just talking out of my ear either...This is just what I've done and it works...you do not JUST need go to gun shows or the Gun Shop...I spread the word and recruit at work, at play, at church, at the mall....everywhere where I come into contact with people ( anyone! ). I SPREAD THE WORD, I spread the literature, I spread membership applications, I collect Loonies for the Legal Defence Funds, I sign up new Members, I get new members to reach people I don't know exist, I write letters to the editor, I get orders for SHOPNFA Merchandise, I'm a Reform Party Member, I supported FED UP II, got my local Unions to support FED UP II, etc...in short, I do EVERYTHING I CAN POSSIBLY DO TO GET THE WORD OUT AND GET THOSE PEOPLE YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT! ( and I've netted *quite* a few...the fields are ripe for harvest, go out into the field and reep!!!) If you haven't done any of the above...your not doing anything to help keep your freedoms or your firearms...posting here doesn't do squat to save your guns...you want to get the word out? Just DO IT! YOU GET IT OUT! Mark J. Hughes NFA-NS President (KSO) THIS IS MY OPINION AND MAY NOT REFLECT THE OPINION OF THE NFA OR THE N.S. NFA CHAPTER MEMBERS...but it should :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:19:29 -0600 From: "Lyle Halverson" Subject: hockey in relationship to firearms Many people I know who enjoy hockey but have never owned a firearm or fired one in a contest when the shooting sports are brought up say:Gun laws dont effect me since I dont target shoot or hunt.Well I say to that since they have that attitude,why should the OTTAWA SENATORS get a tax break we did without them before we can get by with out them again :)) :)) :)) ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #902 **********************************