From - Wed Dec 9 15:39:23 1998 Received: from broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (majordomo@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1]) by skatter.USask.Ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08287; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:40:20 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24141; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:20:10 -0600 Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:20:10 -0600 Message-Id: <199812091420.IAA24141@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #744 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Status: X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 360c873d0000a618 Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, December 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 745 In this issue: Re: Neat Stuff C-68 DEBATE KEEPS GOING AND GOING Does credit card charges mean registration is complete. letter to editor re I.F.A.W. misinformation Barrel Twist Rate Commons Debate "GUN REGISTRATION UNDER FIRE" Buckmasters DEALER CAN'T MAKE LEGAL SALES ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:07:11 -0600 From: David A Tomlinson Subject: Re: Neat Stuff >Are you aware that the police have not been issued with >their pocket enforcement guides for the new act? I talked >with city cops and RCMP and all agreed that they don't have >a clue about what they are supposed to do....... Oddly enough, the NFA has a copy of that new pocket enforcement guide... Dave Tomlinson, NFA -- CLOG: all Conservative or Liberal Ottawa Governments ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:08:41 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: C-68 DEBATE KEEPS GOING AND GOING Commons Debates December 7, 1998 Page 10984 Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FIREARMS ACT Mr. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton-Melville, Ref.): Madam Speaker, I have a large number of petitions again, 242 more pages of petitions with 5,589 signatures of concerned citizens from across the country. About half of these are from the province of Quebec. My constituents are asking me to keep a running total of these repeal Bill C-68 petitions. This year I have introduced 1,751 pages with more than 40,910 signatures. The petitioners request parliament to repeal the totally ineffective Bill C-68, the Firearms Act. The petitioners want the $50 million or $60 million a year being wasted on gun registration redirected to real criminal justice priorities. Organized criminals are terrorizing Canadian cities and biker and street gangs quite literally are getting away with murder, while Mounties are wasting their time and tax moneys registering shotguns owned by duck hunters. It is truly appalling that the government has forced the RCMP to cut essential police services while wasting more than $200 million on gun registration. I am pleased to submit these petitions. * (1515 ) LA LOI SUR LES ARMES A FEU M. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton-Melville, Ref.): Madame la Presidente, j'ai encore une fois un grand nombre de petitions a presenter, plus de 242 pages de petitions signees par 5 589 citoyens concernes d'un peu partout au Canada, dont a peu pres la moitie du Quebec. Les electeurs me demandent de tenir un etat des petitions que j'ai presentees et qui demandent l'abrogation de la loi C-68. Cette annee, j'ai presente 1 751 pages de petitions totalisant plus de 40 910 signatures. Tous ces petitionnaires demandent au Parlement d'abroger le projet de loi C-68, La Loi sur les armes a feu, qui est totalement inefficace. Ils demandent que, au lieu de gaspiller 50 ou 60 millions de dollars pour l'enregistrement des armes a feu, on consacre cet argent a la lutte contre de veritables problemes en matiere de justice criminelle. Le crime organise terrorise nos villes, les bandes de motards peuvent faire n'importe quoi impunement, et la GRC gaspille son temps et l'argent des contribuables a enregistrer des armes a feu appartenant a des chasseurs de canards. C'est vraiment scandaleux de voir la GRC rogner sur les services essentiels tandis que le gouvernement gaspille plus de 200 millions de dollars pour l'enregistrement des armes a feu. Je suis heureux de presenter ces petitions. * (1515) QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I would ask that all questions be allowed to stand. [English] Mr. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton-Melville, Ref.): Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. On March 11, 1998, I placed Question No. 84 on the order paper asking how many violent crimes had been investigated by the RCMP and how many involved the use of registered and unregistered firearms. In accordance with Standing Order 39 I asked for a written answer within 45 days. My constituents have been waiting for 271 days. The commissioner of the RCMP wrote me a letter on July 6 referring to the answer he had given to Question No. 84. The RCMP gave its response to the government 154 days ago. I raised this point 40 days ago and I was assured at that time that I would get the answer immediately. When will the government give my constituents and me the RCMP's answer to this very important question? Mr. Peter Adams: Madam Speaker, we have answered well over 70% of the questions. The member is right. He has asked before. The response to his question is being finalized. I will continue to work to obtain the answer for him. QUESTIONS AU FEUILLETON M. Peter Adams (secretaire parlementaire du leader du gouvernement a la Chambre des communes, Lib.): Madame la Presidente, je suggere que toutes les questions soient reservees. [Traduction] M. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton-Melville, Ref.): Madame la Presidente, j'invoque le Reglement. Le 11 mars 1998, j'ai fait inscrire la question no 84 au Feuilleton. Celle-ci demande combien de crimes avec violence ont fait l'objet d'une enquete par la GRC et combien d'entre eux ont comporte l'utilisation d'armes a feu, enregistrees ou non. Conformement a l'article 39 du Reglement, j'ai demande une reponse ecrite dans les 45 jours. Mes electeurs attendent depuis 271 jours. Le commissaire de la GRC m'a ecrit le 6 juillet au sujet de la reponse qu'il avait donnee a la question no 84. La GRC a donne sa reponse au gouvernement il y a 154 jours. J'en ai parle il y a 40 jours, et on m'a assure a l'epoque que j'aurais la reponse immediatement. Quand le gouvernement donnera-t-il a mes electeurs et a moi la reponse de la GRC a cette tres importante question? M. Peter Adams: Madame la Presidente, nous avons repondu a plus de 70 p. 100 des questions. Le depute a raison. Il l'a deja demande. On met la derniere touche a cette reponse. Je continuerai a tacher d'obtenir la reponse pour le depute. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:08:13 -0600 From: "Ken Orford" Subject: Does credit card charges mean registration is complete. Just wondering . . . For most over the phone credit card purchases, legally the company cannot debit your account until services have been rendered or the product has been delivered. If CFC has already charged my account, should I not be able to assume the firearms in question have been properly registered? I think I'll get on-line and check my VISA statement right now! Ken. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:08:02 -0600 From: OFAH@oncomdis.on.ca (Mark Holmes) Subject: letter to editor re I.F.A.W. misinformation December 8, 1998 As many digest subscribers are aware, the International Fund for Animal Welfare has launched a campaign of misinformation and half truths attacking law-abiding hunters. The following letter has been sent to newspapers in the Niagara and Hamilton areas where the campaign appears to be focussed. We are encouraging all open minded people to write their local newspapers and politicians to oppose this kind of malicious propaganda. As well, people should write any local radio stations airing the I.F.A.W. ads. There will be more to come on this issue. Yours in Conservation, Mark Holmes Communications Specialist /mh OFAH FILE: 402/828 December 7, 1998 Dear Editor: Residents of the Niagara Peninsula, Hamilton and other parts of Ontario have recently been inundated with thinly veiled, anti hunting propaganda. While most people will see through the sensationalistic misinformation, some will be misled, and that is truly unfortunate. At the expense of law-abiding, conservation-minded hunters, bill board images, radio advertising and wads of paper "media releases" are being used to attack the Ontario government. The group conducting this glitzy, $100,000 campaign has a three pronged attack plan targeting bear hunting, hunter apprentices and hunting in parks. The group admits that its aim is "to hurt" first term officials elected by narrow margins. To achieve its aims, this animal rights group does not rely on facts, but uses emotional rhetoric and half truths. This is not the first time these tactics have been used to dupe the public. Citizens, taxpayers and anyone concerned with the truth, or at least a balanced perspective, should know that hunting is a time-honored tradition in Ontario. Each year in this province more than 400,000 women and men participate in this safe, healthy and sustainable outdoor activity. Thousands of hunters hold our natural resources in such high regard that they donate millions of hard earned dollars and volunteer hours to protect and enhance wildlife habitat. Hunting is safe. Statistics from the Safety Council show hunting to be safer than even tennis or golf. The risk of non hunters being injured by hunters is remote, even in the few parks where hunting is allowed. In fact, the odds of a non hunter being injured are greater than being struck by lightning or winning a major lottery twice. Hunting is not permitted in the vast majority of Ontario's parks. Only in a few parks and under special restrictions is a relatively short hunting season is permitted. Hunting occurs at a time of year when few other people are using the parks. It also makes good sense to allow hunting to avoid wildlife overpopulation. Overpopulation leads to disease, starvation and the destruction of the natural vegetation and animal habitat the parks were created for in the first place. ....2 ONTARIO FEDERATION OF ANGLERS AND HUNTERS The Editor December 7, 1998 Page Two Hunters must complete safety training programs, pass examinations, purchase licences and abide by strict laws and regulations. The opportunity to participate in these safety training programs was extended to youths 12 and over this year. Despite being provided with the facts, anti hunting groups continue to try to wrongly convince people that children will be allowed unsupervised access to firearms. But that simply isn't true; apprentices are only permitted to share one firearm and bag limit with their adult, trained mentor. No one should oppose a program to make an already safe outdoor activity even safer. Anti hunting groups like to hold up pictures of cute bear cubs and decry the cruel hunters who orphan them. The truth is that it is illegal to harvest a female bear with cubs, or the cubs themselves during the spring, summer or winter. Anti hunters will not concede that it was the hunting community that first asked for and got Fish and Game Act protection for black bears. Also ignored are the important studies that show hunting is a necessary and acceptable way to manage our precious wildlife resources. With bear hunting at its current level, Ontario still has so many bears that many become a nuisance and even a danger to humans. The misinformation on orphaning has some serious repercussions for the bears and statistics on cub mortality. Female bears may leave their cubs for hours or even a few days. When well meaning but poorly informed people are confused by misleading comments on orphaning, they may remove cubs from their mothers, erroneously thinking they are saving young bears by taking them to shelters. Hunting and hunters are not villainous, and efforts to make this wonderful, heritage activity safer and more accessible should not be attacked, but encouraged by everyone in Ontario. Yours in Conservation, Mark Holmes Communications Specialist /mh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:07:36 -0600 From: "Robin Leech" Subject: Barrel Twist Rate A few months ago, someone was asking about barrel twist rate and bullet speed/length etc. I found an article on it - Speer Reloading Manual #6. If the person cannot find this manual, let me know, and I will photocopy the pages for him/her. Robin Leech ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:08:59 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Commons Debate Commons Debates December 7, 1998 Page 10974 GUN CONTROL Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George-Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, last Friday I had the opportunity to participate once again in a radio phone-in show in my riding. Guess which issue garnered the most questions during the hour I spent with Dick Sequins on CJDC in Dawson Creek. Was it APEC, taxes or health care? No. It was gun control. Despite the wishes of the Liberal government this issue will not go away. Rural Canada will not forget how the government has targeted legitimate firearm owners instead of going after those who choose to misuse guns for criminal acts. * (1415 ) Bill C-68 will not ensure public safety. It will not produce safer streets. Gun owners in my riding continue to question the stupidity of the hundreds of millions of dollars being spent to register the firearms of peaceful law-abiding Canadians while the RCMP drastically cuts back due to the lack of funds. I can tell the Minister of Justice that Bill Farion, a constituent from Fort Nelson, speaks for thousands when he said in a recent letter that he has ``no intention of co-operating with this expensive boondoggle''. __________________________ LE CONTROLE DES ARMES A FEU M. Jay Hill (Prince George-Peace River, Ref.): Monsieur le President, vendredi dernier, j'ai eu l'occasion de participer de nouveau a une tribune telephonique d'une station radio de ma circonscription. Devinez quel sujet a suscite le plus de questions durant l'heure que j'ai passee avec Dick Sequins, de CJDC, a Dawson Creek. Est-ce l'APEC, les impots ou les soins de sante? Non. C'est la reglementation des armes a feu. En depit des voeux du gouvernement liberal, cette question ne veut tout simplement pas disparaitre. Le Canada rural n'oubliera pas la facon dont le gouvernement s'en est pris aux proprietaires legitimes d'armes a feu au lieu de s'attaquer a ceux qui ont decide de faire un mauvais usage d'armes a feu pour commettre des actes criminels. * (1415) La loi C-68 n'assurera pas la securite publique. Elle ne rendra pas les rues plus sures. Les proprietaires d'armes a feu de ma circonscription continuent de trouver stupide qu'on depense des centaines de millions de dollars pour enregistrer les armes a feu de Canadiens pacifiques et respectueux des lois, alors que la GRC doit s'imposer des compressions budgetaires draconiennes a cause d'un manque de fonds. Je puis dire a la ministre de la Justice que Bill Farion, un electeur de Fort Nelson, dit ce que pensent des milliers d'autres comme lui quand il ecrit dans une recente lettre qu'il a . ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:19:45 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: "GUN REGISTRATION UNDER FIRE" PUBLICATION: The Regina Leader-Post DATE: 98.12.08 PAGE: A1 SOURCE: LeaderStar News BYLINE: Wyatt, Mark Gun registration under fire; Local dealer says present system is unworkable A Regina gun dealer concedes he made about 20 illegal sales last week, because he didn't realize the firearms were supposed to be registered on the spot. Now that he understands the rules, Darryl Schemenauer says he still can't make a legal sale because the registration system is unworkable. "The system they've got now is totally chaos," said Schemenauer, owner of TNT Gunworks. "I lost one sale already. Somebody walked out and said he couldn't wait long enough to verify his gun. He said he may come back when the government straightens out what's happening here. But who knows?" Under the new Firearms Act, gun owners have five years to register all rifles and shotguns in their possession. However, the five-year grace period doesn't apply to guns purchased after Dec. 1. Schemenauer told reporters he sold 18 to 24 guns last week before finding out from the RCMP on Friday that dealers are supposed to call a toll-free number to have customers register their firearms before leaving the store. He said his only attempt to use the system on Monday was an effort in frustration. The first time he called the 1-800 number, he spent 20 minutes on hold before giving up. After calling a second time, he spent another 15-20 minutes on hold before reaching a customer service agent. Schemenauer said he was told the rifle he was attempting to sell couldn't be registered because it didn't have a serial number, but the federal employee couldn't explain how to get one. At that point, the customer walked out. Schemenauer told reporters he suspected most customers would bypass the phone registration system and send in their forms by mail. "'I don't know if that's legal or not, but there's no point in me phoning the other number until something is changed on the other end." Saskatchewan Party MLA Dan D'Autremont said he has heard of gun dealers waiting 20 hours to get through on the gun registration line. He said one of the biggest dealers in western Canada managed to register just three guns over a two-day period. A spokesman for Saskatchewan's chief firearms officer said anyone who takes home an unregistered is breaking the law. "The vast majority of guns do not have to be registered until Jan. 1, 2003. But any newly purchased needs to be registered at the time of purchase," said Keith Serry. The only way to get around the phone registration system is to leave the gun at the store and complete the registration procedure by mail. Although most gun dealers received a manual explaining the new rules, Serry said he doesn't expect the Chief Firearms Officer to come down hard on dealers who erred during the early stages of implementation. Federal Justice Department spokesman Jean Valin acknowledged there were delays in getting through on the gun registration line last week, because there wasn't enough staff to handle the 39,000 calls that came in. He said gun dealers should no longer encounter lengthy delays because the government has added a dedicated line to serve them. Valin said it should only take dealers 15 minutes to register a gun once their call is answered. He said it will take longer for those dealers who refused to provide Ottawa with records of the guns they have on inventory. D'Autremont called on the Saskat-chewan government to follow Manitoba's lead and refuse to prosecute charges related to the gun-registration system. "I think what the Justice Minister has to say is this process is not working, it's in total collapse and since we're still before the courts on it, we're not going to proceed with charges or prosecutions." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:19:53 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Buckmasters PUBLICATION WINNIPEG FREE PRESS DATE : WED DEC.09,1998 PAGE : A8 CLASS : City Page Hunter magazine backs off boycott of city David O'Brien City Hall Reporter BUCKMASTERS LTD. has disarmed its Canadian director after he threatened to use the U.S. organization to keep American tourists out of Winnipeg. Dave Murray said the hunting group and its influential magazine would urge a boycott of the city if it proceeded with plans to defend control in the Supreme Court of Canada. He made the threats in a letter to Mayor Glen Murray. But Darren Thornberry, associate editor of Buckmasters Whitetail Magazine, said yesterday Murray was just shooting blanks. ``He was speaking as a private citizen,'' Thornberry said in an interview from Montgomery, Ala. ``He doesn't speak for the organization.'' He said Buckmasters is still gathering the facts about control and its impact on the future of hunting in Canada. However, ``Buckmasters has never and will never advocate a boycott of the city of Winnipeg or any other Canadian city.'' He added the magazine, which has a circulation of 300,000 in North America, might comment in the future, ``so that Buckmasters members can make informed decisions regarding this issue.'' Dave Murray could not be reached yesterday, but Thornberry said he would not be reprimanded. In addition to its magazine and hunting show on The Nashville Network, Buckmasters also operates a large mail-order business, distributing hunting supplies around the world. It opened its Canadian office in Winnipeg last June. The city plans to ask the Supreme Court for permission to present written arguments in favour of control when the high court weighs the issue next year. Manitoba is one of four provinces that wants to see the legislation declared unconstitutional. Mayor Murray has said Bill C-68 may not be perfect, but it is better than the current law. As well, the city's police service has consistently stated its support for control. Some city councillors have said the city should stay out of the highly emotional debate because it is a federal issue. Council will have an opportunity at its meeting next week to debate whether the city is right to get involved in the legal battle. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:20:07 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: DEALER CAN'T MAKE LEGAL SALES CATEGORY: Western regional news DATE: 98.12.08 DATELINE: SASKATOON Sask--Dealer; INDEX: Justice SASKATOON -- A Regina dealer admits he made about 20 illegal sales last week, because he didn't realize the firearms were supposed to be registered on the spot. Now that he understands the rules, Darryl Schemenauer says he still can't make a legal sale because the registration system is unworkable. Schemenauer says he sold 18 to 24 guns last week, before finding out dealers are supposed to call a toll-free number to have customers register their firearms before leaving the store. He says his attempt to use the system yesterday was an effort in frustration. The first time he called the 1-800 number, he spent 20 minutes on hold before giving up. The second time, he spent another 15-20 minutes on hold before reaching a customer service agent. Schemenauer says he was told the rifle he was attempting to sell couldn't be registered because it didn't have a serial number, but the federal employee couldn't explain how to get one. (Leader-Star News) --- IT TIME: 05:43 (Eastern Time) ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #745 **********************************