From - Thu Jun 18 10:26:39 1998
Received: from broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1])
by skatter.USask.Ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14381;
Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:41:47 -0600 (CST)
Received: (from majordomo@localhost)
by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26833;
Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:28:42 -0600
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:28:42 -0600
Message-Id: <199806172228.QAA26833@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca>
X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f
From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest)
To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #443
Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
Precedence: normal
Status: RO
X-Mozilla-Status: 8001
Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, June 17 1998 Volume 02 : Number 443
In this issue:
Interesting tidbit
Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #438
so far
Fwd: UN RED ALERT ! RED ALERT !!!!!
buy & sell press
RCMP surprised how easy it was to buy machine guns
A safety issue...
Breitkreuz vows to continue fighting C-68
UN NGO ALERT
Website for Fedup II rally
armed assault on ottawa
Book of the Month
Response Re: Toronto Revolver Club
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:35:08 -0400
From: rmcreat@istar.ca (BC NFA)
Subject: Interesting tidbit
Over the weekend it was reported that BC's "top cop"
didn't qualify on the firing range and will not be dressed
with his pistol.
The other side of that coin was to state that he is not on
active duty and therefor really doesn't need the pistol.
Now for a History Reminder:
Introduction
The purpose of this brochure is to describe those changes to Canada's
gun control laws recently approved by Parliament of Canada in its
effort to reduce criminal and other irresponsible use of guns.
The majority of gun owners and users - Canada's responsible hunters
and target shooters - will continue to enjoy these legitimate pastimes
without significant hinderance. They should, however be aware of
those provisions which involve the safe handling of firearms and
ammunition and, effective January 1, 1979, the requirements
necessary to obtain a Firearms Acquisition Certificate when purchasing
or acquiring firearms.
Most of the other changes to the gun control laws affect only those persons
who use guns in an irresponsible manner, causing needless death and
injury.
The intent of Parliament in passing this legislation is to encourage the
responsible use of guns, thereby establishing a safer society for all
Canadians.
OBJECTIVES OF FIREARMS CONTROL
On January 1, 1978, a number of major new provisions of the Criminal Code
of Canada came into effect. These measures are designed to encourage the
safer use of guns, and to control their irresponsible use.
The new gun control .aws have three objectives:
1) to reduce the criminal use of guns.
2) to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous persons
3) to encourage and ensure responsible gun ownership and use
To achieve these objectives, the legislation introduces the following
measures:
1) The courts are now provided with the authority to prohibit use or
ownership
of firearms by criminals and dangerous persons. The courts can also impose
heavier penalties for gun-related offences, such as mandatory prison
sentences.
In addition police now have greater powers to search for and seize weapons
in
threatening situations. However, police must subsequently justify any
searches
and seizures in a report to a magistrate.
2) Prohibited and Restricted weapons catagories have been extensively
revised.
Controls have been establised which will reduce the availability of
particularly
dangerous weapons which are frequently used for criminal purposes.
3) The legislastion includes regulations for the inspection and licensing
of firearms
businesses to ensure that dealers' premises meet reasonable standards of
security
and safety.
4) Starting January 1, 1979, a Firearms Acquisition Certificate will be
required
by any person wishing to obtain a firearm. The certificates will be issued
by the
federal government at the local level. Applicants may be required to
complete
competence training and safety tests in provinces where this provision of
the
firearms legislation has been implemented.
In addition to the new legislation, the federal government, in cooperation
with the
provinces, will launch an educational program to make all Canadians aware
of the
need to use and store guns safely and securely.
Furthermore, a National Firearms Advisory Council will be established to
review
and recommend any necessary changes to improve the Firearms Program.
Serving
on the Council will be the Chief Provincial Firearms Officers representing
each
province and territory and representatives of gun clubs, wildlife
associations, and
others directly affected by the gun control measures.
*********************************
The nest installation will be on "Gun Control Aministration", "Antiques and
Airguns"
and "Prohibited Weapons".
The purpose of this is to remember exactly what was stated twenty years ago
and
compare to what exactly has happened in the interum.
Michelle Traver
SSAC
NFA-BC
rmcreat@istar.ca
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:04:36 -0600
From: David A Tomlinson <nfadat@telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #438
>> >The local Range officer informed me that I will not be allowed ( by
LAW) to
>> >fire my semi automatic Registered FN-1A1 nor my AK-84 S1. I am a
>> >handgunner as well and will be recieving my C-301 permit to convey in a
few
>> >months ( or worse ). What exactly are the rules concerning Prohibited
>> >firearms and the ranges that they may be used on?
They vary from Permit to Carry issuer ro Permit to Carry issuer -- although
the law is FEDERAL and SHOULD be enforced equally all across Canada.
>> > Does this mean that I
>> >will not be able to use my .32 cal "banned" VZOR-50??? as well?
Same answer. expect PROBLEMS with your local officials -- and prepare to
knuckle under of FIGHT BACK. If you want to FIGHT, join the NFA. The NFA
is a FIGHTING organization.
Dave Tomlinson, NFA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:04:32 -0600
From: R Cole <rcole44@yahoo.com>
Subject: so far
Well so far today I sent a letter to the
Halifax Herald asking why I haven't seen
anything in their papers about the
CFC UGF RCMP self destructing.
I also sent along a few articles from the
Digest in case they are simply "ignorant" :)
Threw in a quote from their masthead:
"dedicated to the service of the people that no
good cause shall lack a champion and that wrong
shall not thrive unopposed"
Next on my list the Halifax Daily News
What have you done today?
R Cole
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:07:14 -0600
From: MUDPUP <mac_sog@istar.ca>
Subject: Fwd: UN RED ALERT ! RED ALERT !!!!!
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 98 11:40:41 PDT
From: Donna Ferolie
To: MUDPUP
Subject: UN RED ALERT ! RED ALERT !!!!!
The Canadian Institute for Legislative Action ( CILA )
PRESS RELEASE
June 16, 1998
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
RECOMMENDATIONS FROM UN FIREARM WORKSHOPS
First the Foreign Affairs Department openly rejected Dr. Jim Pankiw
Reform MP,
Saskatoon-Humbolt from obtaining " Observer Status " for the United
Nations workshops
on firearm regulations and now this Dept. has used an avoidance
technique in an attempt
to prevent Donna Ferolie, External Agency Coordinator with CILA from
securing NGO
status. Fed up with the never ending foot dragging Ferolie decided to
bypass the Foreign
Affairs Department by directly submitting an application for NGO
status to the United
Nations in New York on June 1, 1998.
The Liberals have taken a leading role in these UN workshops by
supplying chairpeople
and research support and they continue to work under a veil of
secrecy. These sessions are
closed to the public and no verbatim records are kept. Ferolie says
this is a deliberate"
sneaky back door scheme " to further impose even tougher firearm
regulations upon
Canadian citizens by the year 2000. The following are conclusions from
the four
workshops:
a) Hunters should be required to store their firearms in sporting
clubs only.
b) That firearms used in hunting be sharply restricted and permitted
for use only to protect
wildlife.
c) That firearm owners establish a NEED before being allowed to
possess firearms.
d) That collectors be allowed to possess only those firearms which are
non-functional.
e) Gun owners over the age of 60 years be required to pass an annual
physical examination
to keep their firearms.
f) That there be an upper age limit on the possession of firearms (
turning firearms over at
the age of 75 years ) - negotiating on age.
g) That only smooth bore firearms be permitted for the protection of
property or life.
i) That firearm possession be discouraged and that, if they must
individuals would be
permitted to own ONE firearm at most !
This is the real truth that the Liberals are pushing behind closed
doors and do not want
revealed to the Canadian public at this time.
For further information contact CILA at:
Phone: ( 905 )571-2150
Fax: ( 905 )436-7721
Email: teebee@sprint.ca
======================================================================
======================================
Can some instruct me as to how to get this information onto the digest
and not just the chat ?
======================================================================
=====================================
end
of
message
To unsubscribe from this list, do _not_ reply to this message.
Instead,
e-mail the following two lines to majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat
end
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:15:01 -0600
From: John Simmer <simmer@sfu.ca>
Subject: buy & sell press
Info on the buy & sell press free ads:
The first mention of " no handgun ads" occured about Jan 97. It was not a
policy of many years standing, or an owners and management belief that has
ever been stated before this date. I USED TO buy this paper weekly for
over 15 years, and wrote them three letters when I became aware of the
handgun restriction. This is the first response I've seen in print from
them, as they never responded to my letters.
I am a director of the Historical Arms Collectors of B.C., and as an
executive we voted to withdraw all gun show ads, which amounted to about
$2000 a year. They never responded to our letters.
I don't think I've bought more than 6 of their papers since then.
The free ad papers have an international organization, as I saw similiar "
no gun ads " policies in those papers in England.
Regards,
John Simmer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:15:08 -0600
From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" <BreitG0@parl.gc.ca>
Subject: RCMP surprised how easy it was to buy machine guns
PUBLICATION: Montreal Gazette
DATE: 98.06.17
EDITION: FINAL
SECTION: News
PAGE: A3
BYLINE: JONATHON GATEHOUSE
SOURCE: The Gazette
ILLUSTRATION: Photo: PHIL CARPENTER, GAZETTE / Constables Daniel Dorais,
Chris Lemay and Steve Antoine stand near weapons seized by Mounties after a
six-month investigation.
RCMP nab gun-runners: Mohawks in two communities sold easy-to-obtain
weapons, police say
RCMP officers say they were surprised at how easy it was for them to
purchase 14 restricted weapons - including six high-powered machine guns -
from a smuggling ring operating out of two Montreal-area Mohawk communities.
``It was a matter-of-fact attitude ... `Just tell me what you need,' ''
Inspector Pierre-Yves Bourduas said yesterday. ``The offers were almost out
in the open,'' added Bourduas, the commanding officer for the northwestern
sector of Quebec.
Mounties arrested four Kanesatake men in Oka on Saturday, capping a
six-month investigation into what they contend was a highly organized black
market based at the Kahnawake reserve south of Montreal - a market that
offered one-stop shopping for illegal weapons, explosives and drugs. No
raids or arrests were made on Mohawk territory.
Vincent McComber, 42, faces 44 counts of possession and the sale of
prohibited and restricted weapons. Rodney Hill, 42, Carlos Nelson, 24, and
Anthony Nelson, 44, have been charged with trafficking in narcotics. All
have been released on bail pending trial.
At a press conference in Saint-Jerome yesterday, the RCMP displayed an
impressive arsenal of ready-to-use weapons and ammunition purchased during
the investigation, including four AK-47s, assault rifles, pistols, and two
bandolier-fed heavy machine guns.
``We think we've hit on a very important network for the resale of these
type of weapons,'' Bourduas said. ``They were offered in large quantities
and readily available.''
Cops Were Offered Marijuana
Two kilograms of marijuana were also put on display - a small fraction of
the 300 kilograms of pot officers say they were offered.
The $29,500 police spent on the guns and drugs was not recovered.
It's not the first time the RCMP have seized weapons that have purportedly
been smuggled through the reserves. In September, officers arrested six
people in Quebec and Ontario, dealing a major blow to a gun-running ring
that police contend was run out of Kahnawake and another reserve near
London, Ont.
At the time, police double agents purchased three heavy machine guns and
several assault rifles and handguns. Investigators claimed the group had
sold more than 400 weapons, ammunition and about 250 kilograms of plastic
explosives to outlaw biker gangs and other criminals since it set up shop in
February 1996.
Yesterday, Bourduas said the two investigations were not related. He said
police suspect several arms-smuggling rings use Kahnawake as a safe place to
store their merchandise.
``It would be logical to think we might be dealing with several different
criminal organizations operating out of the reserve,'' Bourduas said.
He refused to discuss whether police believe the latest network has a
similar link to biker gangs or other organized crime groups, but he said the
investigation is continuing ``in other parts of the country.''
Bourduas said the RCMP will be passing information to Peacekeepers in
Kahnawake and Mohawk police in Kanesatake so they can start their own
investigations.
Barry Commando, chief of the Kanesatake Police, yesterday confirmed that his
officers are acting on the RCMP information, saying he expects to make
several arrests in the near future.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:19:38 -0600
From: "Carlo Robazza" <carlor@corelcomputer.com>
Subject: A safety issue...
CFC,
The Liberal Government is very concerned about the safety
of it's citizens with respect to firearms. There are safety courses
required before obtaining an FAC. Children are always cited as
being a reason for safe storage (with which I don't have a
problem) and other regulations concerning firearms.
So based on the above, can I assume that the CFC will be
instituting a program to educate children in the area of
firearms safety similar to the Eddie Eagle program the NRA
has in place?
(see http://www.nra.org/eddie/eddiemain.html for more information)
I look forward to your response.After all, if it saves one life, it
would
be worth it.
Thank you,
Carlo Robazza.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:19:33 -0600
From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" <BreitG0@parl.gc.ca>
Subject: Breitkreuz vows to continue fighting C-68
NEWS RELEASE
June 17, 1998
For Immediate Release
MANNING ASSIGNS BREITKREUZ DEPUTY AGRICULTURE CRITIC
"No matter what my title has been in Ottawa, I've always fought for farmers'
rights - now it's official."
Yorkton - Garry Breitkreuz, MP for Yorkton-Melville, is pleased with his new
assignment as one of the Official Opposition Critics for Agriculture and
Agri-Food. In announcing his new Shadow Cabinet, Reform Leader Preston
Manning said, "Garry has made a name for himself fighting the Liberal gun
control laws and representing the Official Opposition on justice issues. He
returns to Agriculture to put more emphasis for Reform on an important
national issue. Garry will ensure that Agriculture issues will remain in
the spotlight during the 36th Parliament."
Breitkreuz commented, "Since being elected in 1993, I have always been
keenly interested and involved in what's going on the agriculture portfolio.
No matter what my title has been in Ottawa, I have always fought for
farmers' rights back home. The only difference is that now it's official."
Earlier this year, Breitkreuz made headlines with his fight against the
government's Bill C-4, an Act to amend the Canadian Wheat Board Act. He
introduced amendments in Parliament, which if they had passed, would have
changed the purpose of the statute from "orderly marketing" to "securing the
best financial return to producers." An opting-out provision would have
allowed producers to exclude one or more types of grain from CWB control for
a minimum of five years, and a sunset clause would have repealed the Act if
the Auditor General determined that the Board had not met its objective of
maximizing the return to producers.
Breitkreuz is more often referred to in the media as Reform's gun control
critic. He had these reassuring words for his supporters in
Yorkton-Melville and all across Canada, "Since being elected in 1993, I have
held four different critic assignments. For all that time, I have been
speaking out on behalf of my constituents who oppose all gun control laws
that waste tax dollars, waste police resources, and do not make our streets
and communities safer. Rest assured, as long as I am a Member of
Parliament, I will continue this fight with the same vigor and enthusiasm as
I have over the last five years." Breitkreuz concluded, "My bill to
strengthen property rights (Bill C-304) is coming up for debate this fall
and I expect both farmers and gun owners will be joining forces against the
Liberal government to fight for this fundamental human right in federal
law."
- -30-
For more information, please call:
Ottawa office: (613) 992-4394
Yorkton Office: (306) 782-3309
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:19:49 -0600
From: dhammond@cadvision.com (Dave Hammond)
Subject: UN NGO ALERT
I was asked to pass this message on to the digest by Donna Ferolie:
The Canadian Institute for Legislative Action ( CILA )
PRESS RELEASE
June 16, 1998
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
RECOMMENDATIONS FROM UN FIREARM WORKSHOPS
First the Foreign Affairs Department openly rejected Dr. Jim Pankiw Reform
MP,
Saskatoon-Humbolt from obtaining " Observer Status " for the United Nations
workshops on firearm regulations and now this Dept. has used an avoidance
technique in an attempt to prevent Donna Ferolie, External Agency
Coordinator with CILA from securing NGO status.
Fed up with the never ending foot dragging Ferolie decided to bypass the
Foreign
Affairs Department by directly submitting an application for NGO status to
the United Nations in New York on June 1, 1998.
The Liberals have taken a leading role in these UN workshops by supplying
chairpeople and research support and they continue to work under a veil of
secrecy. These sessions are closed to the public and no verbatim records are
kept. Ferolie says this is a deliberate" sneaky back door scheme " to
further impose even tougher firearm regulations upon Canadian citizens by
the year 2000.
The following are conclusions from the four workshops:
a) Hunters should be required to store their firearms in sporting clubs
only.
b) That firearms used in hunting be sharply restricted and permitted for use
only to protect wildlife.
c) That firearm owners establish a NEED before being allowed to possess
firearms
d) That collectors be allowed to possess only those firearms which are
non-functional.
e) Gun owners over the age of 60 years be required to pass an annual
physical examination to keep their firearms.
f) That there be an upper age limit on the possession of firearms ( turning
firearms over at the age of 75 years ) - negotiating on age.
g) That only smooth bore firearms be permitted for the protection of
property or life.
i) That firearm possession be discouraged and that, if they must
individuals would be permitted to own ONE firearm at most !
This is the real truth that the Liberals are pushing behind closed doors and
do not want revealed to the Canadian public at this time.
For further information contact CILA at:
Phone: ( 905 )571-2150
Fax: ( 905 )436-7721
Email: teebee@sprint.ca
D.H. (RFOA)(NFA)(CILA)
"It is hard to fight an enemy who has outposts in your head."
- -- Sally Kempton
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:28:28 -0600
From: Karl Schrader <schrader@magma.ca>
Subject: Website for Fedup II rally
Dear Digest Readers:
The new website for the FEDUP II RALLY is as follows:
http://www.fedupcanada.org
Please bookmark it for constant up to date info.
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:28:30 -0600
From: "gord" <gheins@etown.net>
Subject: armed assault on ottawa
I think a good shoot would be ok during the rally but
can you imagine 50,000 armed men and women going to Ottawa .
I think the Police would just piss their pants at the thought of it.
See Ya All In Ottawa .
Gord
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:28:34 -0600
From: dwyerj@vianet.on.ca (J. Dwyer)
Subject: Book of the Month
Here's the recommended "Book of the Month" from the Northern Info
Exchange:
101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2110/Books.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:28:40 -0600
From: "Shelley Matthews" <shelly.matthews@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Response Re: Toronto Revolver Club
On June 10, 1998 I was invited to attend the Toronto Revolver Club to
address the membership with pending changes that will directly affect
individuals who target practice at an approved club/range in the Province of
Ontario.
I appreciate Mr. Harper elevating my position to that of the Chief Firearms
Officer, however, I think the actual CFO might have something to say about
that one.
Just to clarify a few of the points listed in the previous article so that
people are not misinformed:
A permit to carry that was issued prior to 01 Oct 98 will remain valid until
such time as it expires, although they will not be issued after that date as
they will become an "Authorization to Transport" for target practice or
shooting competitions.
Prohibited handguns (section 12-6) of the Act will be grandfathered to
individuals if they continuously owned one prior to 14 February 95, and the
firearms being purchased now by grandfathered individuals were also
registered prior to that date.
All restricted firearms currently registered will require re-registration
and there is no fee for this process although this could change in the
future.
I don't recall indicating FRAS was a mess, and the tape recorder would have
come in handy at this point. Although, I did indicate that there was an
acknowledged error rate in the current system, and this would be cleaned up
at this point.
All shooting clubs for restricted firearms, and all ranges will require
approval under C-68 but the deadline has been extended to 01 Oct 99.
Yes, all ranges will require inspection prior to approval as they have in
the past, although, this does not cover an individual who regularly shoots
on his own property. That included the question from the gentleman who
asked if that included his friends who come over to shoot at clay targets
with his hand thrower. The regs indicate which ranges will be included and
these are being identified in the province.
My speech started by saying that I do not work for Justice Canada, and that
I work for the CFO "so don't shoot the messenger".
When some of the discussion got away from the topic, I did indicate that I
was not there to support the legislation, but to provide you with the
information that would affect those that were at the meeting.
The process is not a waste of Police Officers time, but that there were
alternatives other than using Police Departments for some of this. Since
there are countless individuals in the Province of Ontario who are extremely
knowledgeable in firearms who are not Police Officers, these persons may be
utilized for delivery--firearms verification was the example that I
provided.
I apologize for the brief Q and A period but that was at the direction of
the club.
W. Baumann
Detective Sergeant
Chief Provincial Firearms Office
------------------------------
End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #443
**********************************