Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns Path: tribune.usask.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!utcsri!rpi!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!mdisea!dzur!mdivax1!booth From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth) Subject: Re: Please tear this up Message-ID: <1993Oct8.215349.24673@mdd.comm.mot.com> Sender: news@mdd.comm.mot.com Organization: Motorola, Wireless Data Group - Richmond, BC References: <28slm8$15t@fitz.TC.Cornell.EDU> <291rm5$p97@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> Distribution: na Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 21:53:49 GMT Lines: 65 In <291rm5$p97@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes: >In article <28slm8$15t@fitz.TC.Cornell.EDU> mike@baobab.cadif.cornell.edu writes: >>Canada, which now has a higher violent crime rate (per capita) than the >>US also saw an increase in their previously stable crime rates after their >Boy, *this* would be a good comeback to all those people who >like to use Canada as a counterpoint to the U.S. Do you have >a source for this claim, and any figures? This is the first >I've heard of it. Violent Crime Rate/100,000 Pop. U.S. Source "Uniform Crime Reports for the United States 1991", Federal Bureau of Investigation, p.58 CDN. Source "Crime Trends in Canada 1962-1990", Cdn. Ctr. for Justice Statistics, p.15. Year US Rate Canada Rate. 72 401 507 73 417 534 74 461 564 75 488 597 76 468 596 77 476 583 78 498 591 79 549 621 80 597 648 81 594 666 82 571 686 83 538 686 84 539 715 85 557 751 86 618 808 87 610 856 88 637 898 89 663 947 90 732 1013 91 758 1099 Canada's "tough gun laws" came info effect on Jan 1, 1978. Increase in Canada's violent crime rate 1977 to 1991, 89%. Increase in USA's violent crime rate 1977 to 1991, 58%. Note that Canada's violent crime rate was dropping 1975-1977, and started climbing sharply after Bill C-51 was passed. Note that these are the official government reported rates. Directly comparing any two countries crime rates should not be done due to differences in criminal codes, legal systems, and reporting methods. -- Greg Booth BSc />_________________________________ BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC [########[]_________________________________> /\/\OTOROLA Wireless Data Group, \> / \Subscriber Products Division, booth@mdd.comm.mot.com Path: tribune.usask.ca!decwrl!decwrl!concert!uvaarpa!clem!clem!news From: jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns Subject: Re: So much for "civilized" Canada Date: 21 Jul 1993 23:36:07 GMT Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc. Lines: 39 Distribution: world Message-ID: <22kjt7INN177@clem.handheld.com> References: <22kf32$3rc@transfer.stratus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dale.handheld.com In article <22kf32$3rc@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: > A repost from info.firearms.politics. I certainly was amazed by these > statistics... > > In article <9307211653.AA06472@dragon.mdd.comm.mot.com>, booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth) writes: > > > Reported in Canadian Access to Firearms > > > Per Capita 1991 figures, > > > Canada's property crime rate was 124% of the US rate. > > Canada's violent crime rate was 145% of the US violent crime rate. > > Canada's sexual assault rate was 267% of US rate. > > > The ratios have since gotten higher. Just goes to show the myth of violence in America. Most of our actual violence is located where the media is also located, and local footage is so much cheaper... The rest of the country is quite peaceful, far more so than Canada, now, it seems. > -- > > cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, > OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... Jim -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim De Arras - WA4ONG | "Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; NRA,ILA | it is a force. Like fire, it is a dangerous jmd@handheld.com | servant and a fearful master." -- George Washington Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns Path: tribune.usask.ca!decwrl!decwrl!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mdisea!mdivax1!booth From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth) Subject: Re: Canada violent crime vs U.S.A. Message-ID: <1993Aug19.235105.11360@mdd.comm.mot.com> Sender: news@mdd.comm.mot.com Organization: Motorola, Wireless Data Group - Richmond, BC References: <1993Aug19.194930.7167@mdd.comm.mot.com> <1993Aug19.210450.6354@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> Distribution: na Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 23:51:05 GMT Lines: 125 In <1993Aug19.210450.6354@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> kam@cv.hp.com (Keith Marchington) writes: >Greg Booth (booth@mdd.comm.mot.com) wrote: >: Violent Crime Rate/100,000 Pop. >: U.S. Source "Uniform Crime Reports for the United States 1991", >: Federal Bureau of Investigation, p.58 >: CDN. Source "Crime Trends in Canada 1962-1990", Cdn. Ctr. >: for Justice Statistics, p.15. >Greg: >Are the ways in which the FBI and CCJS define violent crime the same? >Just curious, to know if we are truly comparing apples and apples. >I'd hate to use these statistics only to find out they are comparing >different things. Since US laws vary from state to state, and they are different from Canada's Criminal Code, and plea bargaining varies all over the place, and the rates at which crimes are reported by the victims varies, there is definitely a "apples vs apples" problem. All we can say about it though, is that according the official definitions of violent crime (or defns of apples) is that Canada's violent crime rate is consistently reported as higher than the US. So, its a apples vs apple comparison, BUT your definition of an apple may vary. Another question is that actual coverage of Stats Canada's UCRs (uniform crime report) vs the FBI's UCRs. Is every department sending the paperwork in? Canadian definitions. Canada Crime Statistics, 1990, 1991, From Statistics Canada. 1990 1991 -------------------- -------------------- Population of Canada (est) 26,521,000 27,296,859 Total Crimes of Violence 269,118 1012 296,263 1097 Homicide 654 2 766 3 1st deg murder 347 1 425 2 2nd deg murder 244 1 271 1 manslaughter 60 .. 65 . infanticide 3 .. 5 . Attempted murder 910 3 1039 4 Assault 234,836 883 256,383 950 Aggravated sex. assault(lev 3) 395 1 463 2 Sex. ass. with weapon(lev 2) 917 3 985 4 Sex. assault.(lev 1) 26568 100 28808 107 assault, common(lev 1) 151,579 570 166282 616 assault with weapon(lev 2) 35,289 133 38392 142 or causing bodily harm aggravated assault(lev 3) 3475 13 3852 14 causing bodily harm 4025 15 4061 4 Abduction 1025 4 1119 4 Robbery 28107 106 33045 122 Assault definitions (from Stats Canada) Assault level 1 (common assault)not involving a weapon or serious injury. Assault level 2 using a weapon or threatening to use a weapon or causing biodily harm. Assault level 3 (aggravated assault) wounding, maiming, disfiguring or endangering the life of the victim. Sexual assault definitions are similiar to assault definitions US Definitions ------------------- For USA, FBI UCRs (1990): [Criminal] Homicide = the willful killing of one human being by another, Murder and non-negligent manslaughter. Excluded are failed attempts and negligent, accidental (including traffic), suicidal, and justifiable (cop/citizen kills felon) deaths. [Forcible] Rape = "Included are rapes by force and attempts or assaults to rape." Excluded are statutory rapes (adult having sex with minor without use of force) Robbery = taking, or attempting to take, from a person using threat or fear of violence. Aggravated Assault = attack upon a person for the purpose of inflicting severe injury: usually involves use of a weapon: usually involves use of force which could cause death (aiming a gun at someone, even unloaded, is an aggravated assault). Burglary = unlawful entry of a structure to commit a felony or theft, includes attempted forcible entry. [Larceny -] Theft = stealing without use of force, violence or fraud. Attempted thefts are included. Excluded are motor vehicle theft, "embezzlement, con games, forgery, worthless checks, etc." Motor Vehicle Theft = Theft or attempted theft of a self-propelled vehicle which runs on the public roadways. Excluded are motorboats, construction equipment, airplanes and farming equipment. Property Crime = Burglary + Theft + Motor Vehicle Theft Violent Crime = Homicide + Rape + Robbery + Aggravated Assault Crime Index Total = Property Crime + Violent Crime -- Greg Booth BSc | /_____________________________ BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS|@====|_____________________________> Motorola Wireless Data Group | \ booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (I don't speak for Motorola)