GUN LAWS -- GERMANY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Mike Steffen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi all, Normally I just listen to the group but this time I have somthing that you-all might be interested in and perhaps might want to think about given the current message traffic about gun control, registration and the possibility of having to get a purchase license to own a gun and, heavens forbid, training in the use of firearms. I've lived in Germany for a total of 17 years, both active Army time being stationed in Bad Toelz and in the Frankfurt area and for the last 6 years here in Mainz working for the US Government as a civilian since I retired from the military. I shoot IPSC here with both the Germans and US forces and with mostly Germans doing DJV shooting trials. I'm also a licensed German hunter and USAREUR (United States Army Europe) hunting instructor. As you might guess, I spend a lot of time on different ranges and hunting, (our deer seasons last over 6 months here - and wild boar is year around !), and I also have to deal with several different set of laws and regulations from the US Military, German federal laws and local German state laws and procedures. What I want to do is to explain how gun control and hunting is done here, not that it's better - or worse - just different, the thing is that we may be seeing the same sort of things comming in the US. There are two general classes of people who are licensed to own and shoot in Germany; the target/event shooters and hunters. Lets start with the general target or event shooter. A person decides that he/she wants to be a shooter so they must join a local shooting club. For the first 6-months they may only shoot air pistol/rifles or small caliber pistol, plus they receive safety, marksmanship training as well as instruction in the law, first aid and compitition shooting. After showing good shooting habits and skill they apply for permission to purchase a gun, lets say a pistol. The average person may have 2-3 small pistols, (.32 cal or smaller), and one large pistol for target shooting only. The request for permission includes a statment from the shooting club stating that the person has shown that they can handle and shoot safely and also what calibers the person is able to use at that club. The applicant then takes these forms to the local police and requests a police backround check be made on themselves, (which thay pay 120 DM, or about $85.00 for), and then wait for 6-8 weeks for the response. After getting the background check and the police statment the applicant bundles the shooting club forms and background check statment and two passport type photos together and submits them with a request for permission to purchase a firearm to the local state office of weapons control, (along with more money - pay as ya go, sorta), and then waits for about 2-weeks to get the erlaubnis, (weapon purchase permission), in the mail. Now the person can go an get his/her handgun in one of the calibers allowed in the permit. The actual purchase is no problem as there are LOTS of gun shops over here. The sale of the weapon is made by the gun shop and a form, (not the gun), is given to the person buying the gun, they then take that form back to the local weapon control office and have it recorded into a booklet like card called a waffenschein, this is a register of personel weapons ownership. This book becomes a permanent record carried by the individual of all weapons that they may ever buy. The happy new shooter then takes his weapon book back to the gun shop, shows it to the gun shop person who verifys that the numbers match and hands over the gun. Now for some further conditions. All weapons Must be stored in locked containers. Ammo and must also be stored in separate locked containers. A condition of weapon ownership is that permission is Assumed for the police OR the local weapon control office people to come to the persons house and inspect the storage conditions of all weapons and ammo. The weapon and ammo must be transported in locked containers to and from ranges. The weapon can only be fired at a range and only at standard type targets. The waffenschein must be carried along with the gun and only the owner of the gun may transport the weapon. If a shooter wants another gun they must get another form from the shooting club saying that the person is a safe shooter and that the gun the individual wants can be used at the club. The applicant then goes to the local weapon control office gets a permission to buy a gun form and goes to the gun shop, picks out his gun and then back to the weapon control office and updates the Waffenschein, the applicant then goes back to the gun shop and gets gun. Kinda get the picture here ? The German Government controls not only who has weapons, they also control what weapons the individual has. If/when the owner of the weapon dies one of the items of probate is the weapons, they must be sold or given to a qualified shooter and have it listed on their waffenschein - after getting permission from the local weapons control office. CCW is an entirely different matter that I'll talk about latter if anyone is interested. Now for hunters. To become a German hunter is to assume a rather large load of responsibility to the public and to the conservation of the game and the land. Let me explain - Germany is now the size of Oregon plus half of Washington state but with a population of over 66 million folks - AND - There are over 700,000 deer taken during an average year! This is more then the annual take in the entire US !! The reason that this is possible is the difference in approach to game management and hunter training. To get a German Jagdschein, (hunting license) takes the average person a year of schooling which includes, field training; game identification to include age, sex, condition; first aid; customs; game management and game harvest selection; special hunting techniques for game such as seal or mouflon; international hunting laws and German hunting and weapon laws; game dressing; tracking; dog handling; shooting training and much much more. Qualification for the license is based on shooting qualification with both rifle and shotgun, written tests and oral boards. Only about 60 % of the persons taking the hunting course pass the first year. For a German to do this costs them several thousand DM and an extensive amount of time - you gotta want it to do it ! The hunter has several privileges, (and duties), that the normal person does not. Duties of a hunter include being requested to assist police or forestry officers in searches for lost or hurt people in forest or country areas, criminal hunts, other rescue work or in the shooting of destructive game such as cats and dogs, mountain lions, wild boar and so on. For a hunter to get a gun he/she must first get a police check and after receiving the report go to the local state weapon control office and present their jagdschein and police report along with two passport photos. A hunter then receives a OPEN waffenschein and may go to any gun store, buy a weapon of any type or caliber, as many long guns as he/she wants - normally up to three large caliber handguns - pick-up the guns and walk out with them after showing the store owner their jagdschein. The hunter has 15 days to go to the local weapon control office to have the weapons listed on the waffenschein. A hunter may carry a loaded handgun and long gun with them almost anywhere they want, in fact I've carried my normal back-up pistol in it's belt holster, (a Ruger SP-101 .357), into my bank several times on my way to a hunt when I needed a bit of beer money. In Germany and most of Europe we hunt during the day, during the night and we do it from high seats or on the ground. We do solo hunts, small group hunts and large drive hunts that can have over 100 people involved. We hunt wearing earth and forest colors - not a bit of blaze orange around - and the last hunter killed here was in 1982 when he was pop'd by an unloaded gun !! The training pays off in taken game and safety; the skils gained by hunters allows them quite a bit of freedom in the purchase and control of their firearms, and the hunting is super !! I don't beleive that the US is ready for any of this yet, and I'm scared that when the time comes and HCI and the other anti-gun folks make their point that we Americans are becoming city folks who don't know squat about how to hunt and seem to be better at shooting each other then game, that the gun controls will be even tighter then here and with not near as much common sense. The Pro-gun folks are almost as bad in my mind because they want total freedom in all aspects of the gun control and hunting issues. Wether a compromise such as the Germans have is used or if some other method of control and training is used we are going to have to face a compromise on these issues sooner or later, and hopefully we will do it smart - but we as hunters and shooters had best start planning for it now before we find that the "Government" has done it for us.