From: andre sponselee Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:13:33 -0600 Subject: Senate Hearings: NFA (Dave Tomlinson & Linda Thom) Quick summary of Senate hearings on Bill C-68 (Sep 18) NFA & Linda Thom (original is 19 pages long) DAVE TOMLINSON: Emphasised that Bill C-68 was a regulatory law, not criminal law, and open to possible liabilities for enforcing governments. Objected to Minister's use of public funds for his "information" campaign as well as fals information about the integrity of the RCMP computer system. Noted problems with legal language difficulties from cases already before the courts and that Bill C-68 language is even worse. Also pointed out severe lack of consultation with aborigional people on this issue as required by the constitution. Pointed out problems with current registration system in properly identifying firearms and that there is "no known method of uniquely identifying firearms". Pointed out the mis-use of Orders in Council on Bill C-17 and Bill C-68 and the ultimate power of the Governor in Council with the words "in the opinion of the Governor in Council" would give to the Minister of Justice. Emphasised the confiscation and search and seisure provisions of the bill, lack of control to ensure "registration certificates are filled out properly and unrealistic estimate of the cost of implementing the new system. Outlined the various reasons Canadians legally own firearms. Pointed out reasons why Bill C-68 will not Make Canada a safer place. Stated aims, membership and funding of the NFA and finished up with stating that after 20 years of experience with gun control his faith in a government introducing sensible firearms control is wearing thin. LINDA THOM: Emphasized the sweeping powers that Orders in Council give the government and lack of safeguards when parliamentary proceedure is bypassed. Pointed out that violations of Bill C-68 provisions carry greater penalties than many real criminal code violations. Showed that much of the "opposition" and government stats regarding deaths and injuries from firearms were incorrect. Objected to the "grandfathering" provisions and confusing terminology of the bill to the extent that the bill resembled an "Alice in the looking glass" novel. Outlined efforts to date in trying to draft sensible legislation and that government in power have to date ignored completely, the input from the responsible firearms community. Pointed out that Bill C-68 is no different in that it was ill conceived and aimed at the wrong people. SENATOR GHITTER: Asked how the new law would differ from the current provisions allowing for prohibitions of certain firearms and confiscation and how it would take away court scrutiny. Also asked if taking away the OIC provisions would satisfy the firearms owners. Acknowledged that the group before him had a "tremendous amount of expertise" in this matter. SENATOR LEWIS: Asked how the NFA was formed, funded and number of members and noted that it had long time concerns with gun control legislation and asked what in particular portions of Bill C-68 were of concern. SENATOR ADAMS: Asked for a breakdown of what type of people sought membership in the NFA (target shooters, etc.) and asked why Mr. Tomlinson felt the RCMP computer system was inadequate for the proposed registration system. Also pointed out the $85 million Rock said it would cost and asked why this figure was unrealistic. Pointed out problems in his own community where native and Inuit people do not read or write English and that they would be expected to fill out forms to be mailed in. Asked about the James Bay treaty problems between the government and the native people and connection with bill C-68. SENATOR DOYLE: Asked for more details of funding for the NFA and affiliations with other clubs and organizations. SENATOR LOSIER-COOL: Asked if the NFA disagreed with the aim of Bill C-68 to make Canada a safer place and member input on NFA policy. Asked why an ordinary Canadian civilian has to own a weapon. SENATOR DEWARE: Objected to a notion that the committee wasn't taking their role seriously and that the committee had the top constitutional expert on its panel as well as other legal experts and support staff. THE CHAIRMAN: Pointed out that anyone wishing to speak on legality and the constitution would be heard and that it was the purpose of the committee to look into that area. **************************************************************************** Andre Sponselee, CD, SSM "Ponder the path of thy feet, and Site 485, C19, RR4 Courtenay let all thy ways be established" B.C., Canada, V9N 7J3 Proverbs 4:5 (604) 334-3996 E-mail: hunter@comox.island.net http://www.comox.island.net/~hunter **************************************************************************** - ----- End Included Message ----- ------------------------------ From: andre sponselee Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:17:56 -0600 Subject: Senate hearings: CPHA (Burr and Pim) Senate hearings on Bill C-68 (Sept 18, part 2) Summary from 14 pages MR. ROBERT BURR, Canadian Public Health Association: stated violence is a public health issue and that reducing violence is an important element in building healthy public policy. Dr, CAROLYN PIM, CPHA: tighter controls are key to decreasing death and injury. Listed various stats to support her view and costs associated with deaths and injuries. She also stated that it is not just an urban issue but rural as well and presented some date on the connection between firearms and suicides. She outlined a framework called the "three Es" which is education, enforcement and engineering. Education, for instance would encourage safe firearms practices. Enforcement would promote the idea that misuse of firearms will have consequences. Engineering would require improvements to firearms making it difficult for children to fire. Registration is a cornerstone of this legislation and of the reduction of firearms injuries and death. It will increase accountibility and decrease the number of guns in circulation. As well, Bill C-68 decreases access to ammunition to those individuals who do not legally own guns. SENATOR ADAMS: Asked why the CPHA was involved, it will not improve the health of people. Regarding suicide, he outlined his experiences in Rankin Inlet where many different methods are used. "How many times have we been told to cut the speed limit on highways? How many less car accidents are ther each year?" Registering our guns will not reduce the number of suicides". In Rankin Inlet, he stated, the people are not concerned about guns. they use them to survive. Their concern is drugs and alcohol abuse. Ms .PIM: Firearm related injuries and death are estimated to cost $60 million in Canada per year. Sen. ADAMS: $60 million a year is not bad. According to Allan Rock, it will cost $87 million to introduce registration. It will not reduce the cost of suicide of any type. He then outlined further problems with lending guns to others and liability. Ms. PIM: believes the vast majority of the costs will be covered by fees from the users. Sen. ANDREYCHUK: asked Dr. Pim if she believed Bill C-68 was the most efficient use of limited resources. (Dr. Pim evaded the question and the senator repeated it and added that police do not want it coming out of existing resources) Ms. PIM: Could not comment on the police perspective but added that public health was "chronically underfunded". Some more questions followed regarding suicide and firearms Sen. GHITTER: questioned the effectiveness of a registration system that is dependent on the user filling out firearms information on a card and mailing it in, and that Rock is assuming a lot by thinking all users will register. Sen. GHITTER: mentioned the figure of 8 million firearms and correlated that to the number of misuses noting that it would indicate only 1/20th of 1 percent of the firearms are misused. "Registering the 99.95 percent which are of no interest, to find the 0.05 percent, is like trying to find a needle in a haystack by registering every piece of hay". Is it worth the amount of money that will be spent on registration to do this? Ms. Pim: retorted to the old "we license dogs, cars, etc." Sen. DeWare: raised the subject of infringement of privacy, a concern of many ordinary people ha has spoken with in gas stations and grocery stores, and the right to own private property. Andre Sponselee - ----- End Included Message -----