From owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sun Nov 5 20:50:21 1995 From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca To: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: BOUNCE cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: Approval required Content-Length: 7966 Status: RO X-Lines: 207 From: andre sponselee Senate hearings on Bill C68, Sep. 20, am Mr. Erik Bunkis, Crime Prevention Council of Ottawa: - The Big City Mayor's Caucus has continually supported the Coalition for Gun Control in its campaign for strict gun control, and whereas the legislative changes in Bill C17 were a step foreward, did not include key measures requested by a wide range of national, provincial and local organizations. -The City of Ottawa support the position of the Ottawa Police Commission concerning gun control, plus the following: A ban on handguns for civilian use; a ban on all military assault weapons; a registration of all firearms; sale of ammunition only to holders of a FAC. ----------------------------------------------------- Mr. David Pratt, Regional Municipality Ottawa-Carlton; Regional Police Services Board; -Municipal leaders voice support for gun control measures, a positive step for violence prevention. -By providing tougher sentences and enforcement, criminals will think twice about using guns. -The lawful use of guns will not be compromised by these proposals. -The longer we delay the passage of strickter firearms laws, the more lives will be lost. - The current FAC allows individuals to buy as many rifles and shotguns as they want. -An FAC is not needed to own guns, only to buy or aquire guns. -More than 2/3 of Canadian gun owners do not have valid FACs, and police have no records of the fact that they even have guns, let alone the number or type. -Safe storage regulations are difficult to enforce without information about who owns what guns. -Current gun owners will be expected to pay a fee of $10 to register up to 10 guns by mailing in a postcard. -This bill strikes a reasonable balance between the gun owner and the interests of public safety. --------------------------------------------------------- Sen. Andreychuk: Do your police protocols allow for police when they approach any violent scene to presume there is a weapon in there. Mr. Pratt: I cannot answer your question specifically with respect to presumptions in a domestic situation. Mr. Westwick: Police officers approach every scene with a certain level of caution. They treat every situation seriously. Sen. Andreychuk: Would you comment on the determination of what guns will be around for lawful use and how people will be put in the catagory of those who can use weapons will be subject to regulations that cannot be scrutinized by the court. Mr. Westwick: I do not understand your question. Sen. Andreychuk: We know what this government's intention is. Certainly Minister Rock has put out his position ade- quately and fairly as to what he intensd. By regulation, OIC, guns can be moved into one catagory or another or to- tally prohibited without coming back for any public debate or scrutiny. Mr. Westwick: The regulatory power found in this act is not inconsistent with regulatory powers that are found in fed- eral and provincial legislation across the board. There must be some means by which the government classifies wea- pons. In that regard, I think the proposal is reasonable. Sen. Andreychuk: On your point that nothing is cast in stone, you say registration costs will be something like $12 in the year 2000. It is interesting that we can fore- see our economic situation and the government's capabili- ties to man such a system in the future and can set the fee so definitely now. Have you anticipated how much of your resources will be deflected.....I understand there are no new monies or additional monies coming to police administration and law enforcement. Mr. Pratt: We do not look at it from the standpoint of being a major drain on resources. We take the minister at his word when he says the system will pay for itself. Sen. Andreychuk: I would like an answer. What will drop down the existing list. What type of law enforcement will get a lower priority as a result of putting this one on the top agenda. Mr. Pratt: We (police services board) as a board have not addressed that. Sen. Andreychuk: The Canadian Association of Police Offi- cers state that to administer the act there would have to be additional resoources added. Where are these additional resources going to come from. Mr. Pratt: The police are always looking for additional resources. Sen. Andreychuk: Exactly. Mr. Bunkis: It is also important to note the hunman costs with regard to guns in our communities, with regards to costs in social services, health care. Those should not be underestimated. Sen. Adams: We heard that there are about 350,000 guns that cannot be put into the computer because they do not have a name so far. In the meantime, our cadet organiza- tions are so hindered by regulations that they cannot even go to practise at a private rifle range. You want to ban all handguns. How much more regulation can we stand. Our Olympic shooters have already been affected. Mr. Westwick: I do believe there is a strong balance in terms of recognizing and upholding the rights of gun owners to use those guns in a lawful fashion. Concerning cadets and target shooters, of course Linda Thom is from Ottawa, their legitimate rights continue to be provided and upheld. Mr. Bunkis: We do not view registration as being equivalent to punishment. Registration is just a structure to get information. Sen. Adams: If I lend my gun to a hunter and someone gets shot, what would happen to me. Mr. Westwick: There is an onus on you the same way as if you lent your car to someone. Sen. Cools: You would be held accountable financially but not criminally. Sen. Adams: Criminal judges do not travel to every community. If I have to pay travel and hotel costs to be a witness at a trial because someone stole my gun, I would be responsible to that extent. That is my concern. Sen. Cools: How many cars are stolen daily in Ottawa? Mr. Bunkis: In excess of 4000 to 5000 per year. Sen. Cools: You are talking about 50-60 a day. Are there 50-60 guns stolen per day in Ottawa? Sen. Carstairs: There are not that many stolen nationally. Sen. Cools: You are telling me that more cars are stolen daily than guns? I find that incredible. Sen. Cools: Where do the illegal guns in this country come from and how do they get into this country. The Chairman: I am sure many of the answers are found in this brief. Sen. Cools: This why we have witnesses. I know the answers. The illegal guns in Ottawa, where have they come from and how did they get her? Mr. Westwick: Part of the problem is that police don't know. That is why a registration system, in view of the police, is so important. Sen. Cools: But I am talking about illegal guns. Mr. Cools: Some are smuggled in. Some were legally owned but have been stolen. Sen. Cools: The ones that are being smuggled in, who is smuggling them and where are they being smuggled. Mr. Westwick: I am not sure I am the best person to answer that question. Mr. Pratt: If we knew that, we would have the proble whipped, would we not? Getting gun owners to take some responsibilty and accountability for thei firearms is a very important first step in crime prevention. The provisions in this bill are very reasonable restrictions which should be applied. Sen. Cools: But I am told that, in Toronto, the city I know best, there is a very active trade of illegal guns coming across the border. ----------------------------------------------------- **************************************************************************** Andre Sponselee, CD, SSM "Ponder the path of thy feet, and Site 485, C19, RR4 Courtenay let all thy ways be established" B.C., Canada, V9N 7J3 Proverbs 4:5 (604) 334-3996 E-mail: hunter@comox.island.net http://www.comox.island.net/~hunter ****************************************************************************